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Who won the Debate?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by deadelk, Oct 7, 2008.

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  1. deadelk

    deadelk Member

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    So, who won the debate tonight? I can't watch 'em without breaking a T.V. Did the old guy school the pimp?
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    The empty suit promised everybody free healthcare as a Human Right.


    In the eyes of people who are hurting and have their hands out, that has the same effect as Franklin D. Roosevelt's voice crackling through an old Victorinox.


    In a rational world, McCain won...however, in the habitat of "Boobus Americanus," as another TS.com poster put it - Obama won hands-down.


    As long as people vote according to what their concerns are during their last 60 days of suffering in a hospital at the end of their life, and forget all the years leading up to that, this is the type of leadership we will get. Hand me over everything, and I guarantee you a nice place to die.
     
  3. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

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    According to Weasel Voodoo economics, no one making $200,000 will pay any tax but he will provide free medical care for everyone including tens of millions who do not pay taxes and live off of the money other people earn.....


    The Weasel has never seen a tax he did not like.......
     
  4. bobby ward

    bobby ward Member

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    Guys,

    I am in the McCain camp, but you have to call em as you see em and I will call this one a draw at best and that equates to a win for Obama. McCain and Palin slipped in the polls after the VP debate and the Electoral College map on CNN last night shows Obama well ahead in Electoral votes and those key swing states that were up for grabs are leaning his way. Very scary.

    The two things that hit home for me, one on each side:

    McCain proposes to have the Treasury "buy up" all the bad mortgages out there and lower prinicipals and interest rates so people can stay in their homes. Given the fact that we just spent $800 billion on a bailout, where the hell does this chunk of change come from and just how does he intend to pay for it?

    Obama views healthcare as a "right" for everyone and while it may be a noble principle to strive for, how again do we pay for that?

    Sorry gang but ties do our cause no good. We need and are looking for a knockout punch that doesn't seem to be coming.
     
  5. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    We are fugged either way...

    2012 a new figure will arise from the Financial ashes of what was once known as America...

    It will be a new beginning for most of us...

    This person will be a Trap shooter, Androgynous, Agnostic, Militarily a hard ass, Pragmatic...

    This new entity will go by the singular name of "Mother"

    It will be the rebirth of America...

    regards
     
  6. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    It makes no difference what either one said last night, they will forget all about it after taking office. We need someone with good old honest values ( forget the retoric) That has to be McCain, it sure is not Osama
     
  7. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    It's gonna get ugly....

    Curt
     
  8. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    colonel, unless you make over $200,000 your taxes will not go up, they will actually be cut. And if you make between $200,000 and $250,000 your taxes will increase a whomping $7.60. Now, hopefully you don't make between $250,000 and $300,000. Because then, your taxes will increase an unthinkable $12.40!!!!
    -Trappy
     
  9. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Title: JUDGE ORDERS OBAMA TO PRODUCE BIRTH CERTIFICATE


    Source: News With Views


    URL Source: http://groups.google.com/group/misc.legal/browse_thread/thread/2ef84b09a550c6ae?pli=1


    Published: Oct 3, 2008


    Author: Jon Christian Dryer


    Post Date: 2008-10-06 09:40:38 by midwest minuteman
    Ping List: *Immigration Issues-Borders*


    On September 29, 2008 US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick, the federal magistrate for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania ruled in the matter of Philip J. Berg vs Barack Hussein Obama, et al as the world was distracted by the $700 billion subprime mortgage crisis. Obama signed a breathe of relief as the mainstream media chose to ignore the question: "Can Senator Barack Hussein Obama legally seek the office of President of the United States ?"



    The flap began in June when National Review's Jim Geraghty raised the question and asked the Obama Campaign to release a copy of his birth certificate in order to prove that he actually was born in the United States . (Reports had previously surfaced claiming that Obama's Kenyan grandmother, Sarah Hussein Obama, told reporters that Obama was not born in Hawaii , but in Kenya . She reportedly told reporters that when her son, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. returned to Kenya he was accompanied by a pregnant white wife who was close to term.)



    Obama's family did not take to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama well according to Sarah Obama because she was white. Shortly after she arrived in Kenya Stanley Ann decided to return to Hawaii because she did not like how Muslim men treated their wives in Kenya . However, because she was near term the airline would not let her fly until after the birth of her baby. Obama's grandmother said the baby was born in Kenya and that shortly after Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. was born, Stanley Ann returned to Hawaii .



    Purportedly, when she arrived back in Hawaii , Stanley Anne registered her son's live birth as an event which had just happened in Hawaii . This supposition is based on the appearance, shortly after Nov. 6, 2007, of a Hawaiian birth certificate that was issued, as a duplicate birth certificate, by the State of Hawaii to a US Senator who requested it.



    While the Internet screamed that the birth certificate, which appeared on the Obama Campaign's "Fight The Smears" website and was also downloaded and used by far left blogger Markos Zuniga on his website, Daily Kos, it was not an electronic image concocted by Daily KOs as was hypothesized by a self-described cyvbersleuth who uses the cyber pseudonym Techdude. It was the real McCoy even if it was issued as a political favor to a prospective Democratic presidential candidate by a Democrat official in Hawaii . The county clerk who issued the document, which purports to be a copy of an original document, was date stamped "Nov. 6, 2007" on the reverse side of the birth certificate in blue ink which bled through and is visible on the front of the electronic image.



    Attorney Philip J. Berg, the former head of the Montgomery County . Pennsylvania Democratic Party and a former member of the Democratic State Convention and, reportedly a Hillary Clinton supporter, wanted to learn the truth from the myriad of rumors that also suggested that Sen. Obama may also have been a citizen of Indonesia . The only consistent part of the story was Stanley Ann returning to Hawaii to claim he had been in the United States and was a US citizen. In his ruling, Judge Surrick noted that the "...cause came before the United States District Court Judge, Honorable R. Barclay Surrick on defendant Barack Hussein Obama and the Democratic National Committee's motion to dismiss." The order continued, "Having reviewed the motion and plaintiff's opposition to said motion and for good cause shown, it is hereby ordered that the motion to dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) is denied. It is further order of this court that the following discovery is to be turned over to plaintiff within three (3) days.



    1. Obama's "vault" version (certified copy of his "original" long version) birth certificate; and 2. a certified copy of Obama's Certificate of Citizenship; 3. a certified copy of Obama's oath of allegiance."
    In his original filing, Berg specifically asked for those three items. Berg told the court that "...at the time Plaintiff's complaint was filed, Plaintiff was requesting protections from the court in order to stop Obama from being nominated by the DNC as the Democratic Presidential Nominee as Obama is not eligible to serve as President of the United States. However, Obama was nominated by the DNC...For that reason, Plaintiff must amend his complaint and will be amending this complaint to file a First Amendment complaint...."



    Berg argued that he felt it was the role of the Federal Election Commission to ensure that presidential and congressional candidates are eligible to hold the positions for which they were seeking, and that those candidates run a fair and legitimate campaign. "In vetting the presidential candidate," Berg argued, "the DNC and the FEC are required to ensure the eligibility requirements pursuant to our Constitution are met and the Presidential nominee, if elected, is qualified and eligible to serve pursuant to our United States Constitution. In order to be eligible to run for the Office of President of the United States, you must be a "natural born" citizen.



    "There appears to be no question that Defendant Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was a US citizen. It is also undisputed, however, that his father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a citizen of Kenya. Obama's parents, according to divorce recorded, were married on or about February 2, 1961.



    "Defendant Obama claims he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. on August 4, 1961 and it is uncertain in which hospital he claims to have been born. Obama's grandmother on his father's side, his half-brother and half-sister all claim Obama was born not in Hawaii but in Kenya. reports reflect that Obama's mother traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii. at her late stage of pregnancy (which apparently are normal restrictions, to avoid births during flights). By these reports, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew home and registered Obama's birth. There are records of a "registry of birth" for Obama, on or about August 8, 1961 in the public records office in Hawaii."



    Berg's investigators revealed that Obama's own half-sister Maya Soetoro with whom he was raised seemed not to know where her own brother was born. In the Nov., 2004 interview by the Rainbow Newsletter Maya Soetoro said Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. In February, 2008 Maya was interviewed by the Star Bulletin. This time she told reporters that Obama was born on August 4, 1961 at the Kaliolani Medical Center for Women and Children. On June 9, 2008 Wayne Madsen, a journalist with Online Journal published an article in which he said a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya and located a Certificate registering the live birth of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a US citizen.


    Berg's argument to the court was that under the US Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317 (b), a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of his or her custodial parent. In Obama's case, Berg argued, a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of his or her custodial father. Obama's Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetora signed a statement acknowledging Obama as his son, giving Obama natural Indonesian citizenship, which explains the name "Barry Soetoro" and his citizenship listed as Indonesian. Loss of US citizenship, under US law in effect in 1967 required that foreign citizenship be achieved through "application." Which, according to Berg, is precisely what happened to Obama when his mother married Soetoro and the family moved to Indonesia.



    When Obama and his mother moved to Indonesia, Obama had already been enrolled in school something that could not have happened under Indonesian law if Soetoro had not signed an acknowledgment (the application) affirming that Obama was his son, it deemed his son to an Indonesian State citizen. (Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 mar. 1992, Indonesia Civil Code): "...State children of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution, 1945." Furthermore, under Indonesian law, if a resident Indonesian citizen married a foreigner in this case, Lolo Soetoro marrying Stanley Ann Obama she was required to renounce her US citizenship.



    In his lawsuit, Berg demanded a copy of Obama's Certificate of Citizenship, a document Obama must have applied for to regain his citizenship which was lost in Indonesia. He will have that document only if the proper paperwork was filed with the US State Department when Obama returned to Hawaii in 1971 since that is the only way Obama could regain his US "natural born" status. Berg is convinced that Obama was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Obama returned to his maternal grandparents in Hawaii without his mother. Since she is the only one who could have filed for the reinstatement of his citizenship, it is unlikely it ever happened. If it did, his Certificate of Citizenship would affirm his right to seek the office of President. Without it, Barack Obama is just another resident alien who can't legally hold his seat in the US Senate.
     
  10. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    Another piece of Internet nonsense. Check snopes.com or factcheck.org before you post trash.

    There are enough legitimate issues to discuss.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Seems like there is really a case, as Snopes says. They also dodge the issue with a lot of filler info.

    Why doesn't the Obama camp just jjproduce proof instead of wasting the court's time?

    Trappy, you so funny.

    Maybe you go on TV.

    HM
     
  12. The Kolar Kid

    The Kolar Kid TS Member

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    Did anyone find it interesting that Obama stated that many small businesses can’t afford healthcare for their employees let alone themselves, but then wants to mandate health insurance and will impose fines if they do not comply!

    Obama is a liar and cannot be trusted, period. All the Liberals buy into his slick talk and make no mistake; the guy can talk and probably could sell anything. Ask yourself how many used car salesmen you trust?

    And I am sorry; healthcare is not a right is your responsibility. It is your responsibility also to educate yourself, work hard, feed your family, etc… The only people who really believe it’s their right to have free healthcare are the illegal immigrates, welfare recipients, and the lazy bastards of society (and probably the Indian Casinos!).

    Liberals, stop looking for government handouts and hold each person accountable for their own destiny.

    KK
     
  13. Ken X

    Ken X TS Member

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    I was 100% McCain at first, but after the debate, in which he said he would have to look at government (entitlements) because they are too expensive, he is going to cut medicare and Social Security payments. He has beat around the bush about that before. We have 2 bad choices for President this time. It should have been Romney!
     
  14. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    I tuned in for just a few minutes. Sounded like a couple of schoolboys trading "Yo momma so fat" jokes with the Big Rock Candy Mountain playing in the background...

    Drudge has it right: Boring...
     
  15. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    This is deplorable.

    They both stink.

    Is this the best we can offer?
     
  16. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    It was a debate between the left and the far left. What on earth is McCain talking about when he says the government should fix the mortgages greedy home owners can't afford to pay. And what was Obama talking about when he said he was warning us about subprime loans. He was one of the ones leading the charge to get his brothers with bad credit homes they couldn't or wouldn't pay for. And when did health care become a right. I guess that goes well with the right for government housing. I hate the patronizing attitude to the greedy American people. That it is all Wall Street's fault that we are in the mess we are in. It is because the American people demand to live beyond our means. The American people want the government to insure a rich prosperous life. That is why we have a 10 trillion dollar national debt and growning fast. We fully deserve the fall that is coming. I don't mind being poor. I was never rich and I know I will survive. I am quite good at being poor. What I will miss is the freedoms that Obama and his Democratic house and Senate will take away.
     
  17. atashooter

    atashooter Member

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    What the hell was that ???? I've seen kiddie fights better than that. McCain gonna buy up bad mortgages, Stand there and talk about Pork after he just signed it... I am truly disgusted.So seeing that we are doomed either way, what now? I wish they would put a box on the ballot that says " Both candidates Suck, please do over".

    I think about the only way I can still consider McCain, is for Palin to get naked. At least let me get something out of it...

    Rick L.
     
  18. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I thought I was going to puke when they both started talking about global warming. And Obama talking about how wind and solar are going save us and create millions of jobs. IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. They have both been around for decades and will never be more than a supplement to our energy needs. He really thinks you can tax and spend your way to prosperity. And how on earth does Obama think he can surrender in Iraq and win a war next door. How can anyone be that stupid. We deserve what we get as a nation. The world deserves what it gets from an idiot running the only military (until he dismantles it) on earth capable of keeping peace. The thugs of the world can't wait to test this idiot who blamed Georgia for Russia's invasion. This idiot who thinks you can sit down and talk rationally with leaders like the President of Iran make him see the errors of his ways. Like all liberal idiots around the world he thinks appeasement will save us from the world's tyrants. The next few years are going to be fun for all the world.
     
  19. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I have almost reached that last stage, acceptance. The same peace that comes to someone right before they die and quit struggling and release all their fears. Acceptance of one's fate. Bring on Obama the tax and spend Muslim terrorist. I can take it.
     
  20. atashooter

    atashooter Member

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    Highflyer, That's what I told my wife this morning. Let Obama run the pig into the ground and we will be able to vote again in 4 years and hopfully straighten it out. At least the failure will be on the Democrats record and in 4 years people will me mad enough they will rethink their policies and vote them out. The only problem is, by then will it be repairable??
     
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