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When to throw away hulls?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by myevh3, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. myevh3

    myevh3 TS Member

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    Just beginning reloading. I have a bunch of AA hulls that have been shot before some of them have very small (1mm) slits at the top where the crip begins, the base of the crimp so to speak. Most of them don't show throught on the inside of the hull. Do you think these should be discarded? Or can they be safely reloaded? What are good guidlines for when to pitch a used hull? Thanks....
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    If the rest of the hull looks ugly and there are holes or splits in the crimp folds, it's time to think about tossing them. If the mouth of the hull looks like it has deteriorated and is a bit soft, toss it. If you got three or four loadings, you got your money's worth. I've seen dome shooters put Elmer's Glue or tape over the crimp to hold the shot in. I'm not one of those. I have enough hulls that I can toss them when they look like they have had enough. I did a little chronograph work with poor crimps and found a bit more inconsistency in velocity. I don't have pressure testing equipment here, so I can't comment on that. I don't think the pinholes you described would really be dangerous, but it's the start of the hull's deterioration. Might use them for throw aways.
     
  3. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Quack is right. When you start to loose integrety of the crimp toss them. You want to produce quality shells. I've seen guys do the same as he's seen. Only a few of those guys but enough not to forget and enough to shake my head and wonder. You won't find problems getting hulls.
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I just do it by number unless the hull shows failure before that:<UL><LI>4 reloads for any AA hull; after that the primers start to leak soot or the crimps start to crack<LI>6 reloads for any Remington hull; after that the folds get brittle and start to split</UL>

    I don't reload Federal/Rio/Estate hulls now because they use a different wad than Remington and Winchester but the Federals I used to load rarely ever made it to 4 reloads. Rio/Estate/etc hulls just aren't worth the effort.

    MK
     
  5. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    These are borderline useable. Jim

    <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v337/Jim45/Gun%20stuff/?action=view&current=100_0393.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  6. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I will try most of the time to look over each hull but as we all know at time you just don't and reload. I have my shells fall from the loader into a bucket. Once I finish reloading I move the bucket from under the table and start boxing them. I will then look them over. If the hull is cracking at the crimp I put it a side. If the center of the crimp is larget then the shot and or questionable I put it a side. I will box up all the good shells and move them to my storage area. With the shells that I put a side I will then look closer and see if the damnage is more then I can use on the field. Those that are what I call salt shakers(shot that dribbles out) I will cut open and remove everything and throw the hull in the trash. With the other shells that are useable but do have a small hole that I know will grow larget with the next shot I will take a candle and put a small drop of wax on the hole. I will take a marker and put a X on the bottom of the brass. That tells me that is the last time I will use that shell. I will mark the box as TRASH so I just leave them hulls on the field or trash.

    If you have a brake open gun the hulls will last longer then an auto. I have reloaded hulls about 6 to 8 times with a brake open gun. With an auto I get about 3.
     
  7. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    To each, his own. I probably load my old style AA's more than any of you and while I wouldn't argue with you on velocity deviation, they seem to break targets as consistently as I do. I discard them when they split of course, but also when the crimps tear. A little crack at the crimp doesn't bother me at all. It will probably get discarded at the next loading.
     
  8. BigDave1200

    BigDave1200 Member

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    I wouldn't use those hulls with splits in the side.
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Check for pin holes in the crimp. When you see one, reload the shell one more time (for practice) and toss. I've beeen doing that for 35+ years with no problems.
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    myevh3- First, the answer to this question would have to consider how many hulls you have available. If you have a limited supply, you would load what you have a few times more than I would load them.

    I have noticed that as AA hulls get reloaded several times, the crimp opening on the older shells gets smaller. When I see a hull with a narrow crimp opening and the crimp end is more black than red, I dump the hull. I get rid of my older shells by loading them for doubles and letting them hit the ground.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    There was a test I read a couple of years ago, on how many times a hull could be reloaded. The results were that after about 4-5 loads, the velocities began to drop off significantly, and worse, the standard deviation increased greatly. This was apparently due to the weakening of the crimp folds, and thus pressure variations increased a lot. So my practice is to reload a hull a max of 5 times before discard, regardless of how the hull "looks". Hulls are not a major factor in reloading cost, and it is hard enough to shoot well (for me anyway), so why make it harder with poor or widely varying reloads?

    Jim R
     
  12. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    When you cant hammer them in the barrel anymore..lol..
     
  13. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    As has been said above, once you lose the good tight crimp, toss them out.

    I have seen people try to get 12 or 16 loads out of a STS hull and I always wonder why? They are readily available as once fires for ~ 4 cents, so tossing them after say 6 reloads creates no significent expense.

    Also, I have a HUNCH that weak crimps are a contributing factor to these gun blow-ups that happen from time to time. Between weak crimps amd a not-so-hot primer, along with a powder that is a little hard to ignite, and trouble of a very expensive kind can occur.

    It seems silly to me that a guy who just climbed out of a 40K van and pulled an 8K gun out of it's case would then try to get more reloads from a hull than it is really good for......but that is just me
     
  14. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Jim101, "borderline usable" you are joking , right? Those hulls are dead.
     
  15. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Redhawk44- what are you basing your "weak crimps contributing to gun blowups" on....I don't follow the physics. If a barrel has no blockages, a weak crimp should open with less force thus lowering pressures, or at least not allowing pressures to build to dangerous levels. What am i missing? (I'm assuming a correctly loaded reload.)

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    redhawk44- Perhaps a fellow can afford a 40K van and an 8K gun because he watches his pennies. If you go to a construction site at Noon, you can see a person mixing mud for the brick layers buy a $7 lunch while the developer will eat a sandwich he brought from home.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    JBLogan....the theory goes like this: Smokeless powder is just a little hard to ignite. It also requires pressure to speed up the process. If the crimps are weak, the strength of the primer can, in some cases, fail to properly ignite the powder due to a lack of proper restriction by the crimp. the primer then can push the wad and the shot up the barrel let us say 8" or so. Meanwhile the powder charge is partially ignited and when the wad and shot stop, the pressure begins to build up and when it does it cannot overcome the inertia of the wad/powder fast enough and the pressure goes over the top and KABOOM.

    The probled exists in rifle shooting also, that is why the loading manuals warn against using small charges of slow burning powders.

    Pat....if a man can save enough money on hulls to buy a 40K van and a 8K gun, he is doing a LOT of shooting. ;-))
     
  18. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    redhawk.....if more pressure is better maybe the crimps should be hot glued closed, that would ensure the crimps are sealed. :)


    tony
     
  19. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Regardless of cracks or pinholes around the crimp, I'll toss any that have a kind of alligator type finish on the body...had one "implode" last year....that is, the shot and wad got out of the shell before the powder ignited and as I was ejecting the shell after the "floof" sound, fire and miscellaneous stuff ejected with it. Glad I only had two more shots in the round. The empty had the crimp and a good portion of the body of the shell turned inside, kind of looked like a perverted roll crimp.

    I went through my shells and tossed those with incipient cracks and that alligator skin and am much happier with the results. This was an AA hull.

    I think I'll toss my Dianas before I shoot them after the bloopers I've experienced this winter.
     
  20. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Shells can last quite long but depending on type, like rifenhauser tubes have increasing risks.

    I have measured close to the same velocity with new AA (old style) hulls and those with soft mush mouths providing the powder was fast like red dot and the charge above critical point.
    ie too light a charge by 1/2 grain causes a major drop in velocity. in my case 16.5 of red was too light for a good 7/8 oz 12 ga load but 17.2 was good. Velocity change with increasing pwdr charge took two different slopes above or below critical point.

    The mouths tend to close up with more firings and eventually fail to load right either by collapsing with powder ram or if torn in 2 places at the crimp, the wad will snag and crimp fold under.

    SO old AA's and Gun Clubs last a long time. They are thick in cross section at the brass and wont pull out leaving tubes to stick in the bbl nor do they perforate. They do split axially. The new style AA get axial tears and burn thru at the base.

    "Small mouths" and "two tears" get tossed. I dont load Fed hulls more than 3 or 4 times and dont use new style AA's at all

    Weak, old primers can barely eject the shot and show a lot of smoke as the powder just burns at a low rate. Had that happen consistently with one bunch of primers. New primers and the shells were fine.
     
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