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When the targets are set wrong?????

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ddrsuz, Mar 10, 2008.

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  1. ddrsuz

    ddrsuz Member

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    TELL ME HOW YOU WOULD HANDLE THIS:
    I was shooting on late squad at a club known for throwing extremely well regulated targets. I was not the squad leader and within the squad was another shooter of significant experience whose opinion I hold in high regard. About 1/3 to 1/4 of the squads had to go through the same trap houses we went thru. When we get to our last house, the targets stink (by my eye). They were unbelievably high and maybe a little soft. I assumed the squad leader would complain, he did not......I figured one of the other experienced shooters would complain, they did not. At this point, what would you do........shut up and shoot, or push the issue? Is the squad leader the only one that should complain, or should we all speak up.
    After the round, several of the squadmates commented that the targets seemed way high......tooo late now.
    If every shooter went thru this house, then of course, it would make no difference, but with only a minority going thru there, it seemed wrong. Just want to have my act together in the future.
    d
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Before ANY targets have been shot stop the squad and ask if anyone thinks the trap needs reset . Your paying for good targets and you can ask anytime before you shoot the first target . You don,t need to be the squad leader to ask if the targets look right .
     
  3. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Any shooter can ask to have the targets re-set (not just the squad leader).

    IMO, a >GOOD< squad leader will ask the rest of the squad what THEY think if the targets don't look right.

    John C. Saubak
     
  4. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    You should have spoken up even if it's after others have shot. I'll stand with Sir Cowboy's remarks....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  5. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    The preceeding squads may or may not have shot the higher birds depending on the wind or other circumstances. If they are illegal based on your association rules have them reset or at least checked. while shooting doubles at Sage Hill a few years ago I had observed the targets thrown for the squad in front of us. They appeared to be set correctly. When we took the line and after the kids reloaded the traps the whole field had moved to the right. Our squad leader wanted to shoot the targets stating that everybody else had shot the trap as set. I refused to shoot the targets and upon questioning the trap boy in the house found that he had oscillated the trap in order to easier load targets on to the trap machine. Management re-adjusted the trap field and properly instructed the trap help. Post-2
     
  6. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Why would anybody ask for targets to be lowered and spring added??? They sure wouldn't have much chance of beating the squads that shot the higher softer targets.

    jim brown
     
  7. Popgun

    Popgun TS Member

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    Hi Guys
    I am not a great shooter but I like to be the squad leader because of this problem. I have had targets reset for me and my squad many times. Its your money and you like the best targets

    Bob Smith Ohio
     
  8. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    It's a mind set more then anything. I find the vast majority of the shooters don't want to" Rock the boat" So.. They go ahead and shoot bad targets and their score gets adjusted accordingly. Sometime when you shoot a bad trap go to the score board and find the groups that shot the bad trap with the poorly adjusted targets. Look at the scores shot on that trap and you will quickly see a pattern. The score you hurt or help is your own. If they are not legal then get them looked at and fixed. This can be done at any time. Jeff
     
  9. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    A lot of shooter seem to think it is the squad leaders responsibility to see that targets are set properly. That is not true. The only responsibility the squad lead has is to see that all shooters are in position and the scorer is ready. Then the squad leader simply asks for a target to be shown. If it is ok or not is up to each individual shooter. If any shooter has a question about the targets he/she should then speak up. Another target can be looked at and if the target again appears to be set incorrectly a target check can be asked for. The squads I shoot with generally do so by majority opinion. And a lot of the times the targets on the squad just in front of you can be observed. That also gives you a good idea about settings. - Jim
     
  10. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I will just point out that there is no requirement that says shoot management must comply with a "reset my trap" request. sometimes threads like this make people believe that if you speak up, someone will ride to the rescue and reset the trap for you. That belief is untrue. I know that some shooters think a 10 foot target is too high and an 8 foot target is too low - but guess what - both are legal targets. The margin on doubles is even larger (8 - 12 feet high).
     
  11. ddrsuz

    ddrsuz Member

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    Jim Brown: thanx for your info and digging this back up after it fell way down in the list. And thanx all for your input, I guess everytime before, if I saw slight differences in the target presentation, it seemed to be pretty close to the real deal, so I ignored it; this just looked way off. In terms of Jim Brown's question (I knew someone would call me to the carpet on that one), the answer is real simple, if you are dialed in on a traditional target and you get something wacko, you wander around for awhile trying to get back on the different targets. I guess we should all be able to make such adjustments, but in this case, I dropped a couple trying to figure what the heck was going on, then wham, I was right back on them and going fine, but by then you are getting the pat on the back and they are saying "thanx for your money and thanx for coming."

    thanx again for posting up, I won't be quiet next time
    d
     
  12. mahrbeezer

    mahrbeezer TS Member

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    This sounds like the parents at a kids soccer game standing there with the rule book and complaining about every call the ref makes. I like shooting against people who get bothered by everything. Once your head gets rattled its game over for you. When you see hi targets just think that the other guys cant shoot these targets and your going to smoke them. What are you going to do when there is a hard wind in your face? I know, hold the barrel a little higher and dust them. Just shoot and stop complaining. I kind of think it makes it fun when the targets are different, makes you get them out of the house quicker.
     
  13. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    "Furthermore I know of several shooters that are purchasing their own Radar Guns and they are going to hold to the new ATA Rule of 42 mph + or - 1/2 mile per hour.."

    I really want to see one of your armies stop a shoot, grab their trusty radar gun, and put themselves in a target setting position and then demand to have a trap re-set.

    What a hoot!!!
     
  14. NintyT

    NintyT Member

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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned here. If one shooter on the squad is shooting exceptionally well, the squad should defer to him/her. For example, a shooter has broken the first 75 in hdcp. I think I would feel like a heal if I asked for a reset, and he finished poorly. No, it might not be my fault, but I'd be an easy mark for the blame. I'd more likely ask him what he thinks. If he is comfortable with them as presented, let 'em rip!
     
  15. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Gary Waalkes, If the targets are not legal I don't have to shoot them. It's the clubs requirement to set legal targets. if they are not legal I will have them fixed and if they won't do it ( Hasn't happened yet!!) I won't shoot at that club and neither will a host of other shooters once they find out. The simple fact is that the cost is going up and that cost is passed on to the gun clubs which have no choice but to pass them on to the shooters. When lead, gas,have more then doubled shooters will be voting with there wallets where they will shoot. If the club wants to set poorly set targets at the wrong speed and then say they won't reset the targets they won't be around long. Jeff
     
  16. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I love honest targets - always have. But when people say they are going to carry a radar gun and check targets, I start laughing. Target setting procedures include locking the trap for straight aways, and depending on the type of gun used, you might have to squat down behind the house. You also need to read the last sentence of the rule that states the target must be set by measured speed or distance but not both.

    Clubs I shoot at use radar guns to set targets. Anyone who comes to the shoot a bit early will see the target setting crews at work. IMHO, if you are going to complain about the sets, you should be there early so you can observe the procedures being used.

    Back to the last sentence of the target setting rule. "target must be set by measured speed or distance but not both". So I set the targets at 8 feet and using the distance stake, they hit the ground at 50 yards. I strongly suspect your radar gun will not read 42 mph on those targets. Now I walk to the next trap and crank up the elevation so it is throwing a 10 foot target. to get the targets to land at 50 yards, they will have to slower than the 8 footers of the previous trap.

    Now I hope you see that a radar gun is not the cats meow and you cannot use blanket statements of I'm going to bring my radar gun and if it doesn't say 42 mph, I am going to get the trap reset. This is why the rules say targets can be set using speed or distance but not both.
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Super X Jeff.

    Using the example of a kid's soccer game is not kosher. You are not paying a buck everytime a kid kicks or blocks the ball! Also, the ball will always be the same, and the goals and fields will ALL be set to a fixed standard. ATA has standards to be followed as well.

    Take a little time, set machines to ATA standards, and get the repeat business. This is NOT rocket science. A seasoned shooter will know when weather is a factor.

    It seems registered targets are about a buck a shot now with every thing factored in, or more. I wonder how much they will be in a year?
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Any shooter may ask the management to check the targets before, during or after the sub-event. The targets do not have to be illegal for a reset. Targets should be better than just barely legal.

    But, if the irregularity is caused by wind, there may not be much that can be done.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Paul in Mn

    In all the years that I have been shooting I have NEVER seen a All American shooter ask to have the targets lowered of spring added.

    If you add spring to stabalize a target you might have noticed that it is still stable after your gun is empty.

    jim brown
     
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