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When sales people lie to make a deal

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by senior smoke, Mar 8, 2012.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    Working on a commission type basics can sometimes bring out the worst in some people. I worked and retired from the banking industry and I saw first hand what happens when employees go from earning their paychecks by means of an hourly wage to a commission pay plan.

    I have seen fellow employees who were the kindest nicest people while working at an hourly wage, turn into lying cheating individuals in order to make a living.

    When an employer places a sign for all to see ranging from the top sales rep to the least, in most this cases causes jealousy and stress among fellow employees.

    Obviously, management wants to create competition among it's employees, but the work atmosphere changes as well as the amount of honesty being told to the companies customers.

    A while back I leased two new vehicles and I shopped around from dealer to dealer. Most dealerships were within $300.00 of one another. One salesman told me the difference at his dealership was if you purchased or leased a vehicle from them you can get your vehicles washed for free any time of the day while they are open for business. That bit of information is what tipped the scale in their favor and I leased both vehicles from him.

    Three weeks later, my wife and I drive to the dealership and request that our cars be washed and we were told that would be $6.00 for each car. We told them what we were told and they said that was completely false.

    The manager had our salesman talk to us in his presence and he denied ever telling us this bit of information. In front of his manager he asked if we were calling him a liar and I said let's just say you told us untruths in order to make the sale.

    I spoke to the finance man later that afternoon as I knew him from a previous dealership and had become friends. He told me that this particular salesman has pulled that crap before in order to make a sale and the manager knew it too. Now that it's time to turn in these vehicles the same salesman had the nerve to ask me if he could sell or lease us two new cars?

    Let's just say you can shear sheep once a year, but you can skin them only once. We will look elsewhere. Have any of you ever been lied to by a salesman before?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Don't know that I've ever met a commission salesman who did not lie.
     
  3. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    How do you know when a salesman is lying?

    His lips are moving.
     
  4. BigBadBob

    BigBadBob TS Member

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    Sounds like politicians, too.
     
  5. PHILFIRST

    PHILFIRST TS Member

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    Steve, I am not going to argue the fact that salespeople lie, everybody lies its in our nature. However let me give you a little different perspective. The old saying the customer is always right is crap!!!! After 23 years in the car business I have found very few honest buyers in the market place. Simple facts,

    1) ABC motors is giving me this much for my trade! (LIE)

    2) My bank will give me this % rate! (LIE)

    3) ABC motors will sell me this car for $$$$! (LIE)

    Just three examples what the tricks customers use to get "there best deal".

    If you walk into a gun club to shoot a round of practice at the cost of $5.00 do you offer them $4.00 instead? Car dealerships much like any retail business are not NON-PROFIT organizations. The % of mark up in a vehicle is nothing compared to food, clothing, jewelry or anything else you buy. So dont blame the salespeople for telling you what you want to hear. And remember if they were paid hourly they would do nothing to serve you much like working for the GOVERNMEMT!

    Sincerly,

    Phil Rau
     
  6. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    I didn't lie Phil.... I can prove it!


    Guy
     
  7. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Phil:
    I understand the point you are making. On the other hand one of my best friends use to be a very successful car salesman which I have also purchased a new car from him. This man is honest to a fault.

    One day, his manager wanted him to lie to an elderly couple who drove numerous miles because he told them over the phone the amount they could purchase a car from them. He refused to lie to them and he lost his job.

    No two wrongs make a right. The problem is when dealing with both sides, some people get optical rectosis which is a bad outlook in life. What ever side of the fence you are on, no one deserves to be lied to. (just my opinion)
    Steve
     
  8. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Phil, not to justify lies by customers, but the retail automobile industry has pretty much brought that on themselves by doing business in a planned, underhanded manner. The food, clothing & jewelry stores you mentioned generally have their merchandise marked at their lowest acceptable price. At the car dealership, the customer is faced with a marked price that has very little relationship to the dealer's lowest acceptable price. The dealer is just going to try to get the customer to pay the most he will part with. He does this by touting a fictitious "invoice" price that bears no relationship to the dealer's actual acquisition cost. It's just a really strange way of doing business and gives everyone involved all the incentive to be less than honest.
     
  9. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    The price you see is the price you pay didn't work too well for Saturn cars some years back. People still tried to negotiate the price with the dealer. Most big ticket items have some "wiggle" room. Ever try negotiating with your local supermarket, doesn't work.

    Eric
     
  10. need to shoot more

    need to shoot more Active Member

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    Byers are liars its a two way street sales used to be a great profession no longer in my eyes or heart
     
  11. rudifer81

    rudifer81 TS Member

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    Philfirst you are right on the money with your statements! Aprice, you better do some homework with regards to your statements, you really are way out of touch with reality!!!
     
  12. PHILFIRST

    PHILFIRST TS Member

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    APRICE, Seriously! (not sure I spelled that right) Invoice price or sale price, you dont really think the crap we get from China at a retail store has anything to do with cost vs sale price? Are we really dumb enough to think it really is 70% OFF! and then take an additional 50% off that! COME ON! Did you know Saturn put all of America to sleep with there NO HAGGLE PRICING campaign! you walked in and paid STICKER PRICE! Walk into any dealership and offer them the price on the car, (like you would in a grocery store) and see how easy it is to buy a car! I agree we did it to ourselves but like in any business there are good people and bad, I have survived 23 years by not lying to customers. And yes Guy I would have washed your wonderful wifes car for free!!! Remember sometimes you lowest price is not your best deal. Or Nordstroms would be out of business!

    Phil
     
  13. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Phil, you have blinders on because you are in the business. I've owned various retail businesses in the past including 1/3 interest in a Chrysler store, so I'm not entirely naive. Like everyone else in sales, you assure us that you are entirely honest and would never tell a lie. You missed my point completely....or, more likely, chose to ignore it. It's not about profit margin. The average customer has no real interest in knowing what your product actually costs you & he really has no way of knowing. He just wants to know what your lowest acceptable price is and to have a relatively good feeling that his neighbor down the street didn't pay hundreds less on the same unit. The industry decided to start telling the customer he could be privy to the "invoice" price, so he could think he was getting a great deal if he paid that or only a little more. Pure baloney. The present system has worked well for dealers and I guess to some extent for purchasers, but it DOES promote a high degree of what most would agree qualifies as dishonesty.

    BTW, the no-haggle strategy for Saturn failed primarily because they were selling an unattractive vehicle at a non-competitive price. Had they produced a desirable vehicle and marketed it at an attractive price they probably would have done well.
     
  14. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Aprice, you are correct

    And on a side note, it seems like all the people that come in to buy anything don't really care how much it costs, the first question is "What's my monthly payment" They have no concept of reality, I just want it right now, and I have to fit it into my budget
     
  15. PHILFIRST

    PHILFIRST TS Member

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    APRICE, I dont believe it is blinders, I am probably just fed up with the general public!!! Can you honestly tell me you think if all the dealerships just put there bottem line price on the vehicle that would work? If so why dont we just pay sticker? isn't that the MSRP? (I asume you know what MSRP stands for since you owned a Chrysler store.) By the way wich one? I think we should be able to walk into Sears and buy a car, then we would not need salespeople just clerks. Of course like the first thread you would not have any customer service because they would be paid hourly and wished they worked for the Government!

    Phil
     
  16. PHILFIRST

    PHILFIRST TS Member

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    APRICE, By the way what makes you think I have no way of knowing what the true cost of my product is? Did you asume I was a saleperson? Some people might like there Saturn vehicles! (Not me I thought they were junk.) Should we start throwing around names from Motors or CFC?
     
  17. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I'm retired from the service side of the auto business (thankfully) but I can tell you first hand that every time we heard a customer refer to his trade using those famous words, "Best car I ever owned," we knew it would need a lot of work before we could resell it. The ones that told us what was wrong with their trade generally got more for it because we had a good idea of what we would have to spend on it.

    I even heard a customer who had recently had major body and frame damage repaired in our own body shop tell his salesperson how his trade had never as much as had a scratch on it. I printed a copy of the repair invoice and laid in on the desk of the appraiser who would be placing a value on that vehicle. We sure didn't want to put retail money in that piece. We couldn't sell it to someone else so we would have taken a bath on it at auction.

    A young man once came in on a Saturday to buy a new Z28. I happened to be there doing some paperwork and one of our sales guys told me about the "cherry" Z28 we might be trading, so I gave it a quick look-over. I saw several clues that the low miles the odometer showed might not be accurate so I ran a warranty history on the car. A recall repair had been performed two months earlier in New York state at a 44,000-mile higher odometer reading! I told the sales manager on duty and he presented the Odometer Statement to the buyer personally, stressing the federal and state penalties for odometer tampering. The guy signed it without hesitation. The sales manager then called the police. The customer swore up and down that the odometer wasn't altered so with his permission, I put the car up on a lift and checked the DOT codes on the like-new tires. It seemed they were made just five months earlier and the car was almost four years old. At that point, the guy came clean.

    His father called the dealership owner Monday morning asking what it would cost for us to drop the charges. I'll bet the nut didn't fall far from the tree.

    There are dishonest dealerships, there's no question about that. But there are dishonest customers, too.

    Ed
     
  18. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Phil, you need to re-read my posts. Never said that YOU were not aware of acquisition costs. And yes, I do think that selling at sticker price would be better for the consumer. Of course, that sticker price wouldn't stand if it were the artificially inflated price we see today. If the real price competition was between manufacturers, it would make the dealer/salesman's job much easier. Of course, that would just shift most of the dishonesty to the trade-in portion of the sale.
     
  19. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Ed, if you used factory parts and trained technicians to do the repair, why would it lower the price of the unit that much? Is the work that your body shop did that shoddy or was it shady?

    Just wondering, I'm sure your company was well paid to do it
     
  20. PHILFIRST

    PHILFIRST TS Member

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    Here is that whole fed up side of me. Have the manufacturer set a fair price with no negotiation, don't take trades make the people sell them to a used car outlet. Yes I know this wont work the GOVERNMENT would call it price fixing! Maybe all the cars should just be sold by the Gov. they already own two manufacturers.
     
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