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What's with Alliant?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Shooter R, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    I just read the "cleanest auto powder" thread, and after reading that E3 was a winner, I went to the Alliant Reloading site and plugged in a W209 in a STS hull with 1 1/8 oz. shot with "ANY" wad, and came up with: "NO RECIPES AVAILABLE". Do they think YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST use a rem primer in a rem hull, which may cost twice as much, or what??? Should you ONLY use a fed primer in a fed hull, or risk an EXPLOSION!!! This just causes reloaders to switch stuff around to what ever they have at hand in my opinion.
     
  2. Nebs

    Nebs Well-Known Member

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    Alliant just never produced any data using primers from one manufacturer in a hull made by a different manufacturer. But the real thrust of your question has to do with whether it's safe to substitute primers. The answer of course, is it depends on the pressure profile of the listed load.
     
  3. smokintom

    smokintom Well-Known Member

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    And we value your opinion. To a point. If you look at the loading recipe`s for e3 and look at the pressure`s generated for a given load then you will understand when and where we substitute primers for a given load. Some of us have been loading for years and understand primer substitution as in when and where.
     
  4. dirt stirrer

    dirt stirrer Well-Known Member

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    Generally on days of the week that end in "day" but only if it falls on a holiday. Otherwise, you are safe to swap large rifle primers for shotshell primer, but it may require the use of some gorilla glue.

    I keed of course. I just saw it the other day, but can't remember where I put my shoes last night, so of course can't remember where I saw this primer comparison chart. Coulda been on here. Nonetheless, it is a chart that chows the 'brizzance' levels, or hotness of almost all the popular primers from hottest to coolest. If your googlefu is strong, you can find it, mine isn't. But this chart only shows the brizzance levels, not the diameter, and several of the euro primers are bigger and will swell your primer pocket to where nothing will fit in it again but another euro primer. Be aware of that.
     
  5. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    It's no surprise that I'd hear the "we value your opinion" thing, from a "Well-Known Member". The continued response of: " Some of us have been loading for years and understand primer substitution" is just another example of imagined quasi bonded ignorance. Another member on this site promised me some .410 hulls, turned out fictitious, no harm, just lies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  6. Bob Butler

    Bob Butler Well-Known Member

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    Shooter,
    a phone call to Alliant tech support will answer your question, and get you a powder drop weight for the primer you want and the speed you need. Then you can move on.
    Enjoy E3. Its good stuff.
    When powder went away here you took what you could find on the shelf. I tried an 8 Lb jug and like a few others I had to use it worked very well.
     
    Jon Reitz thanked this.
  7. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    smokintom, no offense, please. My angst was ill directed at another member.
     
    smokintom thanked this.
  8. marbax

    marbax Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you are talking about E3 only? Other Alliant powders do have different manufacturers for primers and hulls.
     
  9. Nebs

    Nebs Well-Known Member

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    I should have prefaced my comment with the qualifier "generally," leaving open the possibility for exceptions.
     
  10. MDshotgunner

    MDshotgunner Active Member

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    All the powder manufacturers should list their recipes for Remington hulls for non-Remington components since Remington has gone stupid with their pricing for wads and primers. Is anyone still using Remington wads and primers?
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Look at pressures with a RED DOT load with a WT-12 wad (17 grains max), and then other wads (18 grains with a WAA12, and 19 with a Windjammer). Look at the pressure difference.

    Now you understand?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  12. mike-sid

    mike-sid Active Member

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    That is low! .410 hulls are like gold to me, should be banned, or at least made fun of.:badguy:
     
  13. smokintom

    smokintom Well-Known Member

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    No,haven`t used Remington components in years.
     
  14. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Active Member

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    I also quit using Remington primers. They priced themselves out of business for me. I also quit using Remington hulls so I did not have to force the Winchester primers or others in the hole. I know that once you enlarger the primer pocket with the non-Remington primers you can then reload them without the Rem's, but got tired of messing with them. I have been using the Winchester hulls in all gauges for quite some time now with no problems. Regards, Bob
     
  15. BIG B

    BIG B Member

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    I'm still quite satisfied using Remington TGT 12 wads for both 1 and 1 1/8 loads in sts hulls with win. 209 primers.
     
    Stl Flyn and mg1polo thanked this.
  16. emmylou1

    emmylou1 Active Member

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    E3 does not like to push 1 1/8 payload,it's a 1 oz powder,thus lack of recipes......but it's clean...
    Pressure dangers...
     
  17. SDV

    SDV Active Member

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    Ever since Paul at Alliant retired calling customer service is useless. Emailing Alliant is also useless for any guidance regarding modifying any load other than
    published data because of legal reasons. If you want to prove to yourself the safety or the ballistics of a load send it for testing.
     
  18. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Shooter, here is my 9/8oz e3 load straight out of Lyman's 5th Edition Shotshell Reloading Handbook

    STS hull, W209, 16.5gr e3, Windjammer wad, 9/8oz shot for 1180fps @ 9700psi. It is a stunningly good performer. Personally, I use the DRM Windjammer clone.

    To give you some idea of how substituting a W209 for an STS209 using e3, here is some more Lyman data.

    STS Hull, STS209P, 17gr e3, TGT-12, 1oz shot for 1191fps @ 7600psi. Substituting a W209 for the STS209 results in 1194fps @ 7600psi. As you can see, there isn't much difference in velocity and none in pressure.

    Based on this, I'd personally have no qualms about substituting A W209 primer in the following Alliant recipe.
    STS Hull, STS 209P, 16.5gr e3, Fig-8, 9/8oz shot for 1145fps @ 9930psi.

    FWIW, I've extensively patterned both the Fig-8 and the DRM Windjammer clone and there is no difference in PE to speak of. So I use the Windjammer because it is lighter and generates less actual and felt recoil for the same load. If you are looking for 1145fps, just drop it to 16gr e3 with the Windjammer.
     
  19. shrek

    shrek Active Member

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    very true, ever since ATK spun off some of their divisions into separate entities things seems to have been a lot more reloading customer unfriendly.
     
  20. bossbasl

    bossbasl Well-Known Member

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    Win. 209 primers have served me well for all shotgun reloading (12, 20, 28, .410) for many years. At current price of $25/M I would not be tempted to use anything else.