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What's Going On With ATA Delegate

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by beltfed, Sep 18, 2008.

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  1. beltfed

    beltfed TS Member

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    Maybe someone can help me with this. Our Delegate works as a squadder and cashier at many of the shoots. Whenever a question arises regarding handicapping she says that she can not get involved as she is working as shoot management. This has happened several times in the last couple years and it becomes very frustrating to the people volunteering to work at the handicap table. As the state Delegate you would think that she could answer any questions as they are asked but she says that the ATA says that she can not get involved as she is technically working for the club. Then when the incident progresses to a full blown complaint with the ATA she assigns it to the second Delegate for investigation as she says she can’t get involved as she was shoot management. Why would the ATA stop her from becoming involved just because she’s working at the shoot. She is still the number one handicapper in the state as Delegate. To add to the frustration she gets paid while the poor saps at the handicap table receive nothing but abuse. Does this seem like a fair system. In fact the state organization receives notice of complaint from the ATA and prior to that no one in the state organization had any knowledge of the complaint because the Delegate doesn’t relay information to the state organization. Or just says that I wasn’t handling the investigation so it wasn’t my duty to say anything. Tell me is this correct? I also found out that the state Delegate, the second Delegate and the third Delegate all shoot out of Redlands, that seems to be quite unusual in a state as big as California. I would think other shooters in the state would want some representation from their areas. Sounds like a really dumb system. One club represents the whole state and the Delegate can’t give advice or information. Several times she has listened to problems arise and sat their and said nothing, is the state getting the commitment from the Delegate they should be or is she just a paid employee of the southern California clubs who doesn’t do her job?
     
  2. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    As far as the delegate being told by the ATA not to get involved because she in cashiering. I can't answer this question you should ask the ATA if this is the case or not.

    As far as "I also found out that the state Delegate, the second Delegate and the third Delegate all shoot out of Redlands, that seems to be quite unusual in a state as big as California. I would think other shooters in the state would want some representation from their areas." I would think so also but evidently the shooter don't want representation from other areas or they would find someone from their area to run for the position. Yourself for example seeing how you are so outraged about the situation!!!

    Bob Lawless

    PS Just a thought but if you have a delegate and two alternate delegates why don't you request that one of them sit in at Handicapping Table(what ever that is)and handle the problems that might arise.
     
  3. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me like questions you need to be asking the ATA members in your state... not the all knowing memebers of TS.com

    Not to say you don't have important questions, issues and/or problems.. but I really don't think my opinion carries any weight about anything that happens in California.
     
  4. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Michigan's ATA Delegate Dave Price is a also a member of the Michigan Trapshooting Association Board of Directors. He's in charge of classification and squadding at all MTA shoots. He's also in charge of the cashiering balance sheet and has numerous other responsibilities.

    His MTA duties do not prevent him from directly discharging his duties as ATA Delegate. The ATA has absolutely no problem with his dual roles.

    I have to say Mr. Price does an outstanding job as both ATA Delegate and MTA Director.
     
  5. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Beltfed is full of crap! I have known the Delegate since she was a teenager! You won't find another person who is a harder worker and looking out for the members.

    At the shoots, she does the squadding and all the related paperwork, including the payouts! Usually another gal will do the Cashiering. There is also usually a Handicapper there. That is the person who would answer Beltfed's problem!!!!

    Evidentally the Handicapper does not go along with Beltfed's piddly assed problem, and he expects the whole system to stop and deal with him. Now he is having a hissy fit and making wild accusations.
     
  6. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    What was the problem?
     
  7. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I would make sure I remember what you stated at the next State shoot when its time to vote for the State Delegate and alternates ... That will clear up that problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  8. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Write up a formal complaint to the ATA HQ with a copy to your Zone V.P.

    Curt
     
  9. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    grunt

    That is a silly question ??? What's the problem ??? beltfed has no idea what the problem is !!!!
     
  10. Eileen Williamson

    Eileen Williamson TS Member

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    Hi Beltfed,

    If there is any problem with the job I am doing as a cashier/squader or Delegate, you can speak to me directly.

    In response to your statement that I don’t help with the handicapping at shoots that I cashier/squad, I have additional work to do at the larger shoots. Being shoot management has never stopped me from handicapping, only the other duties I have at the shoot. It’s impossible for one person to do the squading, cashiering and the handicapping, so I appreciate all the hard work by the CGSTA Officials who do the handicapping. I help out whenever I can and always if needed. Also, any time anyone needs a rule clarification or has a problem/question, I’m always there and not shy about showing a shooter a rule.

    I am a paid employee of a few clubs in So Ca as a chasier/squader. I am proud of the work I do as a club employee and as a Delegate. I have never been paid for the work I do as Delegate. California used to budget $1200.00 to $1500.00 per year for Delegate expenses. Since I have never taken a dime from our State Assoc they have removed that expense from our budget.

    Your statement that - I tell people that I work for the club and the ATA says I can’t get involved - is incorrect and ridiculous. The ATA has never directed me or any other Delegate from helping/working at any shoot. There are many Delegate that work shoots, as I do, and we all do whatever is needed to make sure things run as smooth as possible.

    Your reference to my not handling a complaint that arose at a shoot was correct. I was indirectly involved with the incident and had already formed an opinion. I believe that the shooter deserved an investigator who hadn’t already made up her mind. There is a reason that we have a 1st and 2nd alternate Delegate, to handle situations just like this. Also, about not notifying the State Assoc, the Rule Book states to confer with State officers as deemed necessary, it wasn’t necessary.

    You also said several times I have sat there and listened to problems that have arisen and did nothing, is the State getting the commitment from the Delegate or is she just a paid employee of the So Ca clubs who doesn’t do her job? I have never sat there and not helped. I will respond to any specific complaint(s)/incidents that you know about me not doing my job, but I can’t answer to generalities.

    Your statements on this thread are as always, uninformed. Your contribution to our sport is posting misinformation in a public forum and trying to undermine me (it sounds like you want my job). If you want to talk to me, instead of slamming me, I would welcome a conversation with you. But I know you hide behind your anonymity and wouldn’t want anyone to find out who you are.

    To the rest of the shooters on this forum, I apologize for this exchange with Beltfed, I believe this site should be used in a productive manner, not as it is being used on this thread.

    Respectfully,

    Eileen Williamson
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Working shoots, including classifying, is a thankless job. We who do it make mistakes and when we do we feel really bad about. Those things come free with the jobs.

    I know quite a bit about the incident referenced in this thread and while there is some blame to be spread around, I see absolutely no part of that being directly attributable to Eileen. It was an unfortunate string of events but hardly the end of anyone's world. Time to move on.

    As with anyone in an elected position, they will not make everyone happy all the time because they are called on to make tough decisions. So be it. However, the time, money and effort that Eileen has invested in doing her job can not be denied and should definitely be appreciated regardless of one's opinion on any particular matter.
     
  12. white rattler

    white rattler Member

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    So who the hell is Beltfed? Trevor Dawe.
     
  13. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Probably a degenerate that didn't like the Delegate's answer....

    Curt
     
  14. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    I always thought that part of a Delegate's job was to work the shoots like a govt' mule without pay. LOL
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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  16. YUKONJACK

    YUKONJACK TS Member

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    I no longer live in Calif. but I have shot at many shoots where Eileen was the delegate,doing the handicapping cashiering and squading and doing a fine upstanding job.It is amazing to me how fast she can do the math so fast and be mistake free,I would suggest to you that you have 2 choices if you are that worried leave the state or keep your stupid mouth shut.Yukon Jack
     
  17. Rvator97

    Rvator97 TS Member

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    Hey Eileen, You need not waste any time responding to this guys un-informed posts....( I have worked with Eileen at many shoots and she has always helped me with any handicapping advice/questions.) All of us Calif shooters who know you feel very lucky to have you as our Delegate and really appreciate all that you do for our sport.

    Thanks, Walt Hastings CGSTA Director
     
  18. bas

    bas Member

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    The state of CA is very lucky to have a delegate such as Eileen.I have seen her at many shoots - mingling with shooters, listening to them and I'm sure, handling her duties in the manner in which they are supposed to be handled. At the Grand she makes a point of tracking down all CA shooters to inform them what happened at the annual meeting...what motions were passed, what wasn't...she takes surveys at the CA state shoot to find out what the shooters want on issues that may be coming up for a vote at the Grand. Therefore, I found the original posters comments to be totally out of kilter.
     
  19. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    He might be changing his login from Beltfed to FedBelt:)

    FR
     
  20. beltfed

    beltfed TS Member

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    When I asked questions regarding the California Delegate many of you attacked and offered antidotal evidence of what a nice person she was. Nobody disputes that, it’s her actions or inactions that people question. So, I’ll stick to the facts and then if you want to prove me wrong you can challenge the facts.
    The current Delegate in California works many shoots as a paid employee and therefore does not handle investigations. She has handed off four of the last five investigations regarding filed complaints to the second Delegate. She did handle one compliant filed by a shooter only to have the shooter complain to the ATA that he did not feel he would get a fair investigation and the ATA agreed, pulling the investigation from the California delegate and having the Delegate from another state handle it. The finding was in favor of the shooter who filed the complaint. In the most recent complaint she said herself that she did not notify the CGSTA of the complaint because it wasn’t any of their concern. Very strange seeing that the CGSTA was found to be at fault and ordered to take immediate and specific action to satisfy the shooter. When the CGSTA contacted the ATA and said they had no idea what was going on, the ATA did further investigation and rescinded the letter to the CGSTA, instead finding the club at fault. This was the Western Zone Shoot which is an ATA shoot. All three Delegates from California were at the shoot and people are wondering why the three Delegates couldn’t handle it at the shoot so no complaint needed to be filed. On the national scene the California delegate is best known for standing up and nominating Earl Scripture for reinstatement to the ATA. Had she bothered to call Earl before her nomination she would have found Earl to be residing in a Tampa jail. She next stood up two years later to strongly second a motion at the national meeting in Sparta only to vote against the motion five minutes later. I guess she didn’t completely understand the motion when she seconded it. Nobody runs against her and nobody else wants the job I guess they just want her to do the job they voted her into and stop handing things off to others. As a senior ATA official said, “when it comes to kissing and hugging shooters to get those all important votes there’s no one better, but when it comes to doing her job as Delegate perhaps the saddle is a little to big for the horse.”
    Another quick note, nobody at Kreighoff knows anything about a free gun to Terry Bilbey so I don't know where that rumor started. As for the Larkins helping Terry with Redlands Vickie comes on here and says they have no investment in Redlands while Tom, her husband has told several shooters that he has a substantial investment in the club. You can see my confusion as I don't understand how all this misimformation gets started but I think I'll spend some time setting the recond start as it seems most people just believe what they want to and the facts be damned. There it is, if you can prove me wrong on someting I just said, I will galdly respond and apoligize, but I think you'll find what I said factual, even if some don't like it. Fire away!
     
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