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What's a Win Worth?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JBrooks, Jul 1, 2008.

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  1. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    According to ATA Rules, in HC you have to beat at least 14 other shooters for your "win" to count for a punch. Now, when I was working my way back, I always thoght that getting yardage just because no one else posted a higher score than yours, regardless of whether it was an 85 or a 99, made much sense and still don't. But at least there is a minimum standard.

    In class shooting, how many people do you have to out score to win your class? Yep, zero is the answer. You may not get a trophy, but even if you are the only one in the class, you have technically won it.

    So, why should a classifier give any credit to a "W" on your average card when there are no minimum number of shooters required?
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Lisa,

    Most clubs require at least 3 shooters in a class to award a trophy because they need at least that many to pay for the award. But a "W" on the average card may indicate someone outscored 50, 2 or 0.
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JBooks the only question you asked is "So, why should a classifier give any credit to a "W" on your average card when there are no minimum number of shooters required?" the best way to answer this question is because it is in the rules.

    It does not say that a classifier is suppose to "give any credit to a "W". All it says is " The intent of this rule is to properly inform classification and handicap committees of prior wins and ties in 16 Yard and Doubles events." as I read it just a point of information.

    BTW if you win a handicap event with only 12 other shooters and you don't get yardage. It is still a "WIN" no matter how you slice it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    You're right Bob, they shouldn't give any credit. Like so much of information to which we are exposed about all sorts of things, it is "interesting but useless" compared to "useful information". Kinda like the difference between finding out what your wife is fixing you for dinner and what my wife is fixing me for dinner.
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Trust me, it was just an illustration. I cook better than any woman I ever met but it's important to let her feel she contributes ;).
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Your right JBrooks it is "interesting" but it is not "useless" because it is in the rules and is if not adhered to is a violation and that is not good.

    Rule were put in place to be followed not to be ignored or dismissed as "useless" even if you don't agree it is still there to be followed.

    "C. RULES OF CONDUCT OF AN ATA SHOOTER
    Each member will be furnished a copy of these Official Trapshooting Rules,
    and it is assumed that the member will read and understand each rule.
    Members are strongly encouraged to know these Rules and abide by them
    for their own benefit and for the benefit of other shooters."

    Also another of my favorites is.

    5. Any member who;
    Submits false information for any reason to a participating club, ATA, or
    shoot management;

    By the way failure to follow the rule is subject to disciplinary action. Which means it should be thought about before you or anyone chooses to break it.

    I go to shoots and listen to shooters complain about other shooters doing something that they say is against the rules. The same shooter shows up at the next shoot that I am working the Classification desk and he doesn't have his "W" up to date now what should I do????

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Take a breath Bob, I didn't say that Ws should not recorded did I?

    Here's my question again. What's you answer?

    "So, why should a classifier give any credit to a "W" on your average card when there are no minimum number of shooters required?"

    You are right AJ, but there aren't to many cards out there carrying a line that says "Sparta 200 W.
     
  8. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

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    As a classifier I look at many things...average, scores, wins, ties, and the decision I make is based on a collective overlook of all these things....you would be surprised as to the fits that people throw because "MY AVERAGE SAYS I AM TO BE IN SUCH AND SUCH CLASS.".....I look at a pattern too...I see 98, 98, 97, 96,85, 95, 98, 82, 96, 97, 81....I am going to go with the majority in the case...target management is alive and well.... also I am going to look at how many wins someone has in a certain class...you have 9 wins in D class you can bet you are not going to be shooting in that class again....( again average is not the ONLY thing that is looked at)...best advice I ever got was to go out and beat my best score not someone elses...

    Kym
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JBrooks you keep asking me "So, why should a classifier give any credit to a "W" on your average card when there are no minimum number of shooters required?"

    Why are you wasting everyone time with this crap. You know as well as I know why it is there and why a classifier would give any credit to a "W" or a "T" for that matter. It is information to help determine the class of shooters who's average doesn't tell the whole story. In other words KNOWN ABILITY!!!

    As far as shoots that might have unusually low numbers of shooters in the class most classifier know the shoot dates that carry any real information.

    Now I have a question why are you so concerned with this information? Afraid maybe you might get moved up a class for a low score that you won with? LOL I would like to know really why it concerns you enough to start a thread about a rule that has been around a long time?

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Hey Bob,

    I"t is information to help determine the class of shooters who's average doesn't tell the whole story."

    How many targets in the current year would "tell the whole story"?
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Kym,

    Isn't a 99 harder to shoot than a 96? Of course, but, is it arithmetically more difficult or geometrically more difficult?
     
  12. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Flyfishing, jim but it looks like they may be spooked.
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JBrooks you are right I am spooked because you only want to ask questions. You never answer any all you do is ask. Especially when you know the answers to the questions you are asking. Which of course means there is no sense in continuing the game.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

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    Jim, Seeing as how it is all mathamatical, I would say it is a mental problem....
     
  15. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Geometrical and that is why you can't assign a value of "1" to each score by using a "pattern" approach.
     
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