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What you won't hear about VA Tech......

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by superxjeff, Apr 19, 2007.

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  1. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    As the shots are sounding in the background all you see is the cops hiding behind trees. Where were the boys in blue? Why weren't those sworn to protect storming that building? Saftey of the officers? Sorry that is bullshit. If you pin on that badge you are being paid to walk into dangerous situations and deal with them. Flame away if you want. I will guarantee you that well I may be the only person to say it I am not the only guy thinking it. If just one person had had a gun it could have made a diffrence... well, there were lots of people with guns who could have made a difrence. They were hiding behind trees. Jeff
     
  2. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Jeff,

    Very Observant, I was wondering if they were waiting for the guy to come to them ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  3. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Jeff - If you watched the video's you will see officers attempting to enter the building. Doors chained shut. They did blow one door, but by the time they were able to do so the carnage had ended. Don't be so fast to past judgement unless you were there. - Jim Elliott
     
  4. handlepuller

    handlepuller Well-Known Member

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    That's why someone on the inside needed to be able to shoot back.

    Few rounds of .357 coming back at that bastard would have changed things considerably.
     
  5. cmh

    cmh Member

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    Hello, I remember seeing lots of windows. So who in the hell needs a locked door when you can bust out a window.Things like copshiding behind trees and safe haven areas are what you get when you embrace a liberal society. Craig
     
  6. Mac V

    Mac V Guest

    I would agree if you're referring to trained police officers rather than minimum wage security guards or the general public.

    I seriously doubt that there are many people who carry a gun for protection who actually have what it would take mentally and emotionally to aim a weapon at another human being and pull the trigger with the intent of ending that person's life...and that includes some of the macho banter I've read on this forum. Despite all the saber rattling, it takes a special person to have it in them to look another human in the eye as they kill them, especially when they are not being confronted directly by the person they would have to kill.

    Mike
     
  7. mastergunner

    mastergunner TS Member

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    Best thing that happened was that he killed himself. If the police would have shot him they would be saying that they used excessive force and would try to proscute them.

    We have limited our law enforcement officals so much that they are afraid to do their jobs and I don't blame them.

    Here you go blaming the problem on the police instead of the sick twisted individual who commited the crime.

    The only person at fault here is the shooter and no one else. Put the blame were it goes, it isn't the police officers fault or the campus officals either. It was all due to a nut case out of control.

    To bad he didn't have nut case on his forehead so people would know to watch him more closely.
     
  8. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

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    Mike

    I think you underestimate the folks who have CHL's and practice using their handguns regulary. I would bet that once the murderer starting pointing his guns at folks and pulling the trigger, you're argument goes out the window.

    We can agree to disagree.
     
  9. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    From Manchester NH last week....

    At least nine bullets were fired in a shootout Saturday morning at a downtown bar that ended with the gunman who allegedly instigated the shooting hospitalized after he was shot twice by another customer.

    About 50 people were inside the Uptown Tavern, 1301 Elm St., at 12:45 a.m. Saturday when the shooting happened, sending customers diving to the floor for cover.

    Police said Eliezer Encarnacion, 26, of 214 Bremer St., Apt. 2, fired a .45-caliber semiautomatic handgun about a half-dozen times at two bouncers and the assistant manager standing in a rear doorway.

    Customer Kenneth Gage then pulled out his Kel Tec .380 semiautomatic handgun and fired it three times, hitting Encarnacion twice, according to court records.

    Police did not release Gage's age or address. He told police he pulled out his gun and fired it after Encarnacion shot at the bouncers and at him.

    Encarnacion and Adrian Brown, 32, of 46 Dover St., Apt. 8, were drinking in the upstairs lounge when one of them inappropriately touched a woman, and they were asked to leave, David Somers, who co-owns the bar, told the New Hampshire Sunday News.

    According to court records, bouncer Erick Turner said Brown became confrontational as he was removing him from the bar and assistant manager Jeremy Tinker came to his aid, as did Chad Chapman, another bouncer.

    As they were escorting the two Virgin Islands natives out of the bar, Brown allegedly punched Chapman in the face several times.

    Chapman grabbed him by the neck and began walking him out the rear door, according to Det. Stacy Howe's affidavit. Then Chapman heard the "cocking" action of a semiautomatic handgun and turned to see Encarnacion pointing a black gun directly at him.

    Chapman dove back into the bar to avoid being shot.

    Witness Travis Smith heard two gunshots and told police everybody in the bar "hit the deck." Then he heard several other gunshots and saw two black men run out the back door.

    Smith and his friends chased after them, catching up to the wounded Encarnacion, who fell to the ground at Myrtle Street. Smith stayed with him until police arrived.

    Witness Andre Dupont was outside the bar when he saw two black men near the rear entrance yelling. One of them pulled a black gun from his waistband and fired it six or seven times in two separate bursts, Dupont said.

    After the second volley of gunshots, Gage told police he pulled out his gun and fired it at Encarnacion and Brown. Gage told investigators he was uncertain if one or both of the men had guns and were firing them.

    Just before the shooting, Gage told police, he saw two bouncers arguing with Brown and Encarnacion. He learned one of them was a boxer and decided to walk over near the bouncers in case they needed help.

    In 1999, Adrian Brown trained at the Queen City Boxing Gym. He and his four brothers were all involved in boxing and he and older brother, Gilbert Brown, both captured New England Golden Gloves championships.

    One of the bouncers was trying to get Brown and Encarnacion out the rear door when a fight broke out, Gage said, and one of them began shooting directly at the bouncers and at him.

    Gage, who voluntarily surrendered his gun to police, told investigators he was amazed no one was hit.

    Police recovered six .45-caliber casings and three spent .380-caliber casings from the area where Encarnacion was standing at the time of the shooting. They also recovered the .45-caliber handgun.

    Two fresh bullet holes were in the wall of the 4-by-4-foot alcove where Chapman, Tinker and Turner were standing.

    Encarnacion has been charged in the shooting and is being detained on $100,000 cash/surety bail. He is to return to court on April 26 for a probable cause hearing and again on June 25 for a trial.

    Brown, who was stopped by police at the intersection of Pine and Orange streets, pleaded innocent in Manchester District Court to simple assault, accusing him of punching Chapman in the face.

    He told the judge he didn't know why he was being charged with anything. "I heard gunshots and I ran," he said. "I'm innocent."

    Brown has a 1 1/2-to-3-year deferred jail sentence pending, which stems from a cocaine-related conviction in January in Hillsborough County Superior Court, according to the prosecutor.

    His bail is $2,000 cash/surety. He is to return to court on June 28.
     
  10. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Those guys on cops never have a problem getting through a door. Maybe it's because somebody isn't shooting on the other side of the door. I can see where all that gun fire could cause a guy to lose focus. What I know for sure is that while those kids were being slaughtered like sheep those cops were not trying to hard to get to the gun fire. They created a gun free zone which criminals never respect and then the kids were to rely on the police if something happened. Well, I think they know pretty well where that got them at this point. In todays PC world it is no longer ok to crticize anybody and the response is always predicatable.. Well, You were not there. I wasn't there, nor am I in Iraq but the footage is pretty clear most nights. Jim you can't get through a door hiding behind a tree. Isn't that plain too see? Jeff
     
  11. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Mike, Iwould have turned that s.o.b. into swiss cheese as soon as he burst into the room with a gun and that's NOT I promise you MACHO B.S.
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Careful, there Jeff. Some people want to stick up for the establishment whether they did their job or not.

    I personally at this point see enough previous knowledge of this guy's nuttiness that he should have been committed before any of this happened.

    HM
     
  13. rooferbob

    rooferbob Active Member

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    The bad part is that he did have NUTCASE on his forehead, he was in trouble with the law for stalking women at the school,expelled from classes for being an idiot,had mental evaluations and found to be ok to be in society, they have records of him buying a handgun just before the shootings. This guy was trouble from day one at the school and I think the school officials and or law should have seen this coming and got rid of him before these peole died!
    I'm sure this is gonna be good
    Rooferbob
     
  14. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen,one eye.
     
  15. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    Any NRA member who receives their monthly magazine, should be reading the "Armed Citizen" portions. These are not made up stories! They may be edited a bit for length of content, but when I read about an elderly man firing at and killing intruders in his home, my faith returns in the "Self-Justice" method.

    I can imagine it would be very hard to pull the trigger on another human being, but if it is self-defense, or protecting a loved one or your property, the heat of the moment may take over.

    Just my thoughts

    Danny
     
  16. rooferbob

    rooferbob Active Member

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    I agree Danny, anyone with a gun in their hand, and some loose nut killing people, is gonna shoot him given the chance.
     
  17. Bawana

    Bawana TS Member

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    I have read some of the post here. If I was there and came up to a locked glass door, Fine you with the shot gun SHOT THE GLASS. If a shotgun was not around my side arm will do. GET IN NO MATTER WHAT. As for shooting the guy. It all come down to "CAN YOU DO SO". There are cops who are being sued for doing their job when they shoot someone. Then there are the civil trials. That is a call you and I will have to make at the time you have to. I'm not on the side of the cops but looking at life today with all the lawyers and court.
     
  18. hawk57

    hawk57 TS Member

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    I'm onboard with you guys that some officer(s)could have acted and saved lives, however from my limited knowledge of police tactics, they are trained to establish an inner and outer perimeter first, and to call in SWAT to handle it from there. Typically, the average officer is not trained or equipped in the combat tactics required to enter a building that contains an armed assailant and possible hostages. So, I have to believe the officers did what they were trained to do.


    Hawk,
     
  19. briggsguy17

    briggsguy17 TS Member

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    Okay, this is my first post here, been lurking for a long time though. I am a long time (13 yrs.) police officer and I will bet that what you saw were officers on the perimeter. There were probably many, many other officers attempting to gain entry into that building. Since Columbine there has been a very strong push to train officers in dealing with an "active shooter", which this whack job was. I cannot imagine a department anywhere in the country that has not had it's officer's trained in active shooter response. Blaming the police is not uncommon in these situations. That being said let's not forget that the sole blame rests with this whacko. He apparently planned this several months in advance and police had but seconds to respond. Just my .02 cents. I really do enjoy this forum a great deal.
     
  20. kentucky joe

    kentucky joe TS Member

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    You are all way off topic and don't have a clue as to what police officers are trained to do! This is not the days of Dragnet and Adam 12. I have been in law enforcement for over thirty years and you guys are condeming police officers because you just don't know better. I go through doors every day to "Serve & Protect". We arrest more felons in the course of a year than all other federal agencies "Combined", so I do speak from experience. I may be sworn to uphold the law, but I am not sworn to go rushing into a dangerous situation and get myself shot. If I get shot, I can't help anyone!

    "If you pin on that badge you are being paid to walk into dangerous situations and deal with them" What an Ignorant & Bull ---- statement this is! No one in the world is paid enough to give up there life frivolously.

    I have only seen limited footage of this incident, but you are too quick to judge. Those officers had no idea what was on the other side of that door, how many perpetrators were there(was it a battalion), what kind of fire power was being used(was it military armament), was it a well trained terrorist unit, or a slew of other questions that no one here has considered.

    You guys sound like all the other liberal political pukes out there that are so quick to judge a persons actions when you are not in their shoes! It's arm chair quarterbacks like you that make things difficult for officers to do their job. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't so get off of their backs.

    Chris Riley
     
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