1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

What year did 3 hole change to 2?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by himark, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,427
    Location:
    LINCOLN NEBRASKA
    I searched it and did not readily get an answer. When did this change? anybody have some insight to the climate around the change and what prompted it?
     
  2. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,257
    Winter must be coming early.
     
  3. mx3p4

    mx3p4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    41
    It was about 1996. That was the last year we had an ATA president who had balls enough to tell it like it should be. After that the ATA became more concerned with attendance, straights (however they may be attained). I have attended the Grand at both facilitates and although the Vandalia was nice it was overcrowded and needed updating. There other offers and even better than Sparta but they did a nice job in Ill. Sparta reminds me of Vandalia in the early part of the century. Sparta will some day be like Vandalia(?).
    The 2 hole tarnishes the original goal of the grand slam and that should be recognized with asterisks. Please read some of Brad Dysingers comments on trapshooting.
    r
     
  4. 548

    548 Guest

    I understand the hole reference from the old Western traps. But how does that translate to todays PAT traps? Are clubs actually "narrowing" the angles on the PAT traps or are they just set more narrow from the factory? My club must have missed the memo.
     
  5. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,158
    Location:
    Nebraska
    It never did.


    jim brown
     
  6. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Ding ding ding...

    Jim Brown has it right!
     
  7. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,585
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    I think it was originally back in the 70's when the ATA changed from 3 hole to 2 hole targets. In my area of the country, numerous club owners were setting their targets at the two hole before the ATA changed as they wanted shooters to shoot higher scores so they would come back to their particular club to shoot.

    Vic Reinders was totally against setting targets in the 2 hole and Waukesha gun club was the last club in the area to change from the 3 hole to the 2 hole. Once the ATA declared 2 hole targets than Vic gave the word to go to the 2 hole.

    Then I remember possibly back in the 90's the ATA went back to the 3 hole for one target year. I then saw previous 27 yard shooters start taking reductions faster than if they had a bus transfer.

    I could care less if they placed the machines in the 4 or 5 hole as long as everyone shoots the same targets. Personally, I think it would be fun seeing handicaps won with scores of 91 and 92 again.
    Steve Balistreri
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,354
    Location:
    Indiana
    I know of a place that threw 1½ hole targets! The owner had an extra hole drilled and tapped. Todays Pats come with a 4¼" bar between the angle switches, but it can be shortened.

    Many clubs don't check their angles so the fields are off causing shooters to think angles are greater than #2 when in fact, yes, one angle is more severe but the other side is less than a #2 hole.
     
  9. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,427
    Location:
    LINCOLN NEBRASKA
    32000

    Interesting.... I shot at a club once that was using pat traps and ALL the scores including mine were EXCEPTIONALLY high. I felt all the angles were soft and never ever really seen a hard angle. I wondered if a Pat trap could be made to throw softer angles and it appears you have answered my question. I wonder how many people shorten that bar????
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    The original wording in the rules was "not less than a straightaway from posts 1 and 5". Does anyone remember when we also threw 50 yd. Doubles targets??
     
  11. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,003
    I have shot registered for many years and never realized the difference in target settings until I got on TS.com. I don't recall any where where the targets were easy?

    Clyde
     
  12. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,370
    Clyde, you must not be old enough to remember like these real old timers can.
     
  13. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,158
    Location:
    Nebraska
    The difference is in the mind of the beholder. Some clubs figured out that if they threw the shortest, narrowest, highest targets they could get away with their attendance would be better because everybody shot better there. The rules haven't changed much. Shorter doubles but nobody was throwing 50 yard doubles anyway. One foot lower in max height. Smart clubs still know that you will get more shooters if they shoot better at your club so they work on edge with the narrowest, shortest, highest target they can get away with. Unless the ATA wants to send a target setter to every registered shoot this won't change. I remember when I was a kid I had to walk to school, uphill both ways.


    jim brown
     
  14. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    Any target thrown less than a 44 degree included angle (straight away from posts 1 and 5) prior to 1996 did not comply with the rulebook at the time and was illegal.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  15. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,158
    Location:
    Nebraska
    It also said that no winchester trap should be set in less than the two hole. Everybody read that part and forgot the rest. I have shot a lot of two hole targets and even a few one hole targets both today's targets and in the "good old days". I also clearly remember that it snowed a lot more, was colder and dryer back then.


    jim brown
     
  16. Husy rider

    Husy rider Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    I do not rember the year,I attended meeting it was the year Lucky became Pres.
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    A Pat trap won't throw the same amount of "straights from 1 or 5 the old Win hand-sets do/did.

    There's only 5 degrees difference each way from center, angle wise, in todays target settings versus the angles of old. Distance and heights have also changed with higher targets and less distance.

    We officially adopted a cheating practice of setting lesser angles and distance alluded to above in the 95/96 target year. The cheating began in the very early 80s and spread like wildfire all across the country. Some set regulation targets while others followed the cheating path as the best thing for the sport ever. Was that idea the best for the growth of our sport?? I know it was the best for shooting better scores by those mastering the handicap game. What it did do in addition, was to completely change the perception others have of our sport. Not such a great decision in my mind.

    HAP
     
  18. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,354
    Location:
    Indiana
    Clubs that throw "really" soft targets hurt the shooters that compete at larger venues throwing "legal" targets. It's like "WOW! Where did that hard right come from, never seen that at home!"
     
  19. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,003
    Hunter 44, I will be 80 if I make it to my next birthday. Does that qualify me as an oldtimer? If targets are easier now, how come I shot my best scores 30-40 years ago?

    1oldtimer,Clyde
     
  20. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,370
    Clyde, the targets must have been a lot easier back then......I thought that we all just kept getting better with age......oh, wait, maybe that's wine.