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What would you like to see for cap payout?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Pointer, Mar 6, 2012.

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  1. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    Looking at some programs there seems to be a trend to pay down as many slots as possible. In handicap you can see clubs are starting to pay down to 10th place..or as far as 15th. This payout trend seems to drift into more options "pays 1 of 5" or Lewis pays 1 of every 10 entered..Awards like guns etc are often given in a score draw..say 87's win and everyone with an 87 shoots for the award. Often each yardage shoots for own money...etc. I know this is not new, but it seems more frequent and moving into more options.

    I suspect shoot management's reasoning is more people will shoot if they feel they have a better chance to win something rather that a chance to win big in a top 3 payout system.

    I don't know if this is working..or if it is what most shooters want. Would you want $50 in 13th place in handicap, or give that up for a chance at $400 in 3rd, and nothing below that?

    I for one would rather risk walking with nothing for a chance to compete for more.

    If this trend is what most want I'm all in..What do you want to see? I hope to not open up arguements if possible.
     
  2. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    756
    When I started (1969) the Grand handicap purses were paid via a system called "Rose Point" unless you want the complicated procedure, I will say a much higher percent of shooters played the money in that purse system. As I recall it would pay 9 or 10 places. The way it paid, if there were 20 98's and only 1 97, each of the 98 recieved more than the lone 97. I won over $350. for a 95 from the 23 and slightly more than $100 for a 91 from the 27. Several years ago I won $300 for a 98 from the 27 at the Grand, this under the percentage system currently in use.
     
  3. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    756
    Most of the Shoot Programs in western Washington have gone to the T-Ball approach for competition. Make everyone a winner. A typical handicap program will have NO TROPHIES, but give $7.00 back per shooter. Sounds pretty good so far. Now, for the rest of the story. There are usually 7-8 full squads. The program then divides this into three yardage groups, paid 60%/40%. If things were always even, there would be 13 shooters per yardage group. However, there are always fewer shooters at the 26-27 yardage group. At 13 shooters per yardage group, there would be $93 per group, split 60/40% ( $56/$37 ). Remember, is costs $28 plus $4 in fees to shoot. Add in the $20 for shells and the event cost $52 to shoot. Not counting gas at $4 per gallon. $52 to shoot for a chance of winning $56, ( if there are enough in your yardage group that day). I'm beginning to see why the numbers for registered shooters are down.

    Now, if the program was changed back to a real handicap system, ie, one yardage group, it's a complete different picture. Same shooters, different program, look at the results. 40 shooters at $7, equals $280, split 50/30/20%
    would pay $140/$84/$56. That is a program worth shooting.

    I can understand splitting the yardage groups at the larger shoots, (not really), but at the smaller shoots, it just doesn't make any sense. Let's get back to real competition, leave the T-Ball to the 5 year olds.

    Tomas
     
  4. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    5,680
    Compulsory money......pay and play only.

    Curt
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Pointer:

    As you'll see here our sport is made up of people with real opposing positions on many subjects. That said, I believe that payouts have to be large enough to make someone take notice. Therefore, I am very much against the trend to continually water down payouts by using "percentage" methods and too many paid scores. I'll admit, when I started I always played the options, but not anymore. Why bet when you are only going to win a couple bucks under this pay 5 places, 50%, 30%, 20%, percentage stuff many push now, even when there are only 25 shooters.

    Shooters talk about so and so won x hundred dollars at the shoot. They don't talk about someone getting back $17 on a $10 bet, if that.

    Yeah, people will complain about the top guys winning all the money, but I think it's better to have a shot at something real, compared to paying numerous shooters a couple bucks.

    I'll give you an example, I shoot in a large nonregistered league that returns added money at a post-season shootoff. At one time they paid out 5 scores in each of 5 classes on a percentage system. This made no sense, especially in the top classes, with many shooters receiving checks in the mail for less than $1.50. Someone had to print the checks, stuff and address envelopes and add postage to mail dozens of these checks, many of which people never even bothered to cash. They have cut down on the number of scores being paid, which helps a little now. The top class should really go to paying only one score, since there are so many ties, but it's a tough sell. The only way to win anything in this system is for a lower class shooter to come in with a single high score. Will not happen in the highest classes, so they cannot win as much as the lower classes.

    You still hear people talk about how so and so won $500 plus for winning this shoot in the old days; now the winner might not even recover his costs for the day after shoot-offs. Doesn't make for as good of a story or PR for the shoot, IMHO.

    You really have to look at your shoot and how the payouts have really broken down, and then made changes based on experience.
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    3,402
    Riddle me this:

    Why does an amateur activity have to pay out anything?

    Kekker
     
  7. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    Even though we are a small # of shooters my intent is to get a real feel for what shooters want. Yes I'm on one side of the issue, but I'm also one person.

    Members are getting mixed messages. On one hand the ATA has the new huge (martin money and match)pots at the Grand. The intent is it will bring more shooters, on the other hand we split money so far down it becomes little or nothing, and we tend to Lewis the prizes like guns..again to bring more shooters?? One of these methods are correct..I think, but I hope your responses will clarify. If we see a huge lean in either direction it will help. If not we are likely good. It would not matter if I 'get my way' if what I want brings less shooters to the sport.

    My intent (If it appears that most want it) is to reach out (with some real documentation in hand)IF..it is what I see here from all of you. Yes I know this is not a great survey as you can't account for the type of shoooters that tend to post. I'd guess we are a competitive bunch :)
     
  8. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    One of the best Hdcp payouts is the Great Eastern Purse it pays the top 6 places 25/15/10/25/15/10 The 2nd 25% usually has more shooters to split money with,. So if 100 was high it would pay down to 95.

    Now this is for a 100 bird registered hdcp shoot.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
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