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What would to squadding If Master Computer Burned

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Jul 21, 2009.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Regarding the Wisconsin State Shoot Fiasco.

    What would you do if the Master Computer Burned Up, Hit by Lightning Etc.
    A fire broke out in the kitchen and burned up the computer area?

    All names and squadding was destroyed, entries lost, options lost.

    Would a very large shoot be prepared for it?

    Are we prepared for this?

    It hasn't happened yet, but what if it did?

    Is there a back-up plan in place?



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    There's always another venue.

    It's called Plan B.

    Curt
     
  3. Nuts

    Nuts TS Member

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    fiasco? hardly, so a few people didn't get to shoot when they planned to, this happens at every trap, skeet sporting clays, rifle an pistol match, and BB gun shoot.

    What to do? As rediculous as it is, I guess the conventional wisdom is to blame everyone associated with running the shoot.

    On the solution side, I would get out a score tablet, ask the shooters to produce their cashier receipt and re-squad as noted. No receipt equals no squad, no shoot.

    It might take sometime, however I see no other way. A back up system is only as could as the data thats backed up.
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Has this been a problem?

    Neil
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Neil it will be now Dr longdraws is on the job doing what he does best. Making trouble.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. Milkbone

    Milkbone TS Member

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    Apparently Dr. Longshot has a fan in Nurse Shortshot.
     
  7. Damifino

    Damifino Member

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    Back everything up on a thumb-drive every night before you leave. OR set up an online mirror for a few $$/month.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Actually it is a good question. Our club is getting more reliant on the computer every shoot, we need to prepare for the ill timed crash. Couple of good suggestions from Damifino. (guess you did know after all) Thanks
     
  9. Trap4two

    Trap4two TS Member

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    First thing is to backup the download from pre-squad.com. Then backup everything 2 times a day. Always have an extra computer on hand. Even at a small shoot. Thanks Mike
     
  10. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    Trap4two has some good suggestions. I work in IT and deal with this stuff every day on a much larger scale with much larger amount of data.

    1. You will loose data, no way you can cover everything and not loose that last transactions so you had better have a plan ready.

    2. You need a standby system to fail to as mentioned above.

    3. You must have a way to recover, backups is probably the best solution, however note that while you are creating the backup you have nothing until it completes. Then ask yourself if you have a way to validate your backup.

    4. THIS IS THE MOST IMPRORTANT. Practice your recovery to verify what you have is valid and it actually works. Document the process and let other people practice with your documentation.

    You can have a very simple recovery that is practiced and works and be miles ahead of a complicated recovery that wasn't tested and fails when called upon. Something simple is far more reliable in the long run

    You have nothing until you verify you have something. More people back things up only to discover they can't use the backups or the backups weren't working only after they needed them than I would like to talk about.

    To all who have huge amounts of faith information can't be lost on computers, I say it's way more complicated than you think and lowering downtime and data loss becomes very very expensive.
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    There are some intelligent people on here besides myself, that realize this could happen.

    Neil I said in my post it has not happened yet.

    There is always some that short read postings on this site, they only report on findings that suits their remarks.

    They charge a fee for pre-squading, shooters pre-squad for a reason, usually to schedule their time when thay have to get home or to work, not all are retired or have a huge stash of money, some have famlies, wives and children.

    Having to shoot a late squad means they can't shoot and have to leave.

    Plan "B" has to be put in place immeaditly.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  12. schockstrap

    schockstrap Active Member

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    We've learned to back up the data from the 3S system regularly at our club, though we aren't nearly as dilligent about moving the backup to removable media as we probably should be. We've been able to recover from a couple of near-disasters after someone managed to delete all the squads for an entire event (still not sure how this happened) by restoring a backup of the database files. We had to re-enter a few people, but losing 10-15 minutes worth of data is better than losing a few hours of your work.

    The old fashioned "pencil and paper" method also has problems in terms of catastrophic data loss. Fire, water, wind, dirt, can al destroy those records too, and they are much more difficult to back up.


    Nuts,

    You must not have been at the WI state shoot this year if you think this only happened to a few people... I sympathize with the folks that ran the shoot (it's a thankless job), but to deny that there was a serious problem with squadding that wasn't properly dealt with is just inviting disaster in the future. It's OK to admit there was a problem... that's the first step towards fixing it.

    --Dan
     
  13. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Way I see it there are a couple of different issues that could contribute to the problem(s) and there are different solutions.

    1. Actual computer doing the data entry/retrieval dies Data retrieval needed quickly.

    Options:
    Internal computer drives
    Setup of Computer using RAID with correct mode for backup:
    Pro: Using multiple hard drives in a RAID setup to maintain data even in the event of one of the hard drives failing. Con: Require multiple hard drives and the proper setup of the RAID configuration, does not protect against a motherboard type failure or fire etc.

    External Data Storage:
    Pro: Simpler setup, portability when closing for the night (take it home with you). Con: Requires external HD (flash CD etc), frequent auto backup system needed to eliminate need for operator intervention, system possibly stalling while backup is taking place, backup must be checked to insure it is indeed creating a usable back up, same data handling program required on any other computer used for backup retrieval.

    Network (off site) storage:
    Pro: Data at a different location than the computer used to enter data. Con: Requires network connection of some type, computer must be configured for this type operation, costs of network provider services for data. data must be sent over public network so should be encrypted especially if financial data is included (VISA/MC etc.), access problems should network problems occur.

    These are only a few possible courses. There always exists the ability to use two different means of data security at the same time (a belt AND suspenders approach) and there are some overlap possibilities.

    Longer time available for data recovery: Possible routes are "pen and paper". Logistics of this are an entire different matter both on the entry and retrieval. Con: Much greater humane intervention with attendant possible errors on entry or retrieval. Need for customers to provide information needed for tracking may vary depending on particular needs (event/squad/post, classification, yardage, specialty group, options paid/played etc.) Does not lend itself to rapid retrieval on day of shoot.

    One thing I tell all my computer users is, "There are two types of computer users. Those who know what the term 'Backup' means and do it and those, who at some point in time, will wish they did!"
     
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