1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

What shells = other shells?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by pyrdek, Jun 3, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,297
    With the cost of everything going up, I figure it might be time to look at some ways to use or reuse some things like the "second string" shells.

    There is plenty of Data published for reloading AA, STS & Gun Club (type) and Gold Medal shells. There is a limited amount for Fiochi. I have found virtually none for Estate, Rio, Top Gun or other shells. What little I did find on Top Gun was in only one published (on-line) manual. That listing seemed to treat Gold Medals and Top Gun as the same shell for reloading purposes. The same was true for STS and Gun Club. There are a smattering of other shells I ran into but since these "third string" shells are not very common, I am not interested in loading for them at this time. That might change if I ever accumulate enough of them to make reloading them worthwhile.

    I found nothing at all for reloading Rio or Estate shells.

    Since these are the shells most likely to be found, with Estate's and Rio's getting to be a bigger share, is there loading data, from a reliable and tested source, to allow re-use of these shells? If so, where? If there is data to show, again from a reliable and tested source, to show that these shells may be treated the same as some other better known shell, where is the cross reference available? I do know that some of the shells I listed are six-point while most are eight point but, provided the data is available to safely load these "second string" shells, that would not pose a problem to me.

    Joe P.
     
  2. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    929
    Joe, the Estates and Top Guns are the same hulls (both made by Federal). Only the shade of red is different. Those hulls have a compressed rolled paper basewad, so make sure the hulls that you want to reload are not "range pick-ups" that have soaked up moisture and dew. They have a wee bit less room in them than the premium Federal Gold Medals, but can be loaded with about the same data. They emit the same funny odor after firing reloads that they do on the first firing. ....Rick
     
  3. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,650
    pyrdek:

    Per Alliant Powder, 3dram8 is correct. Federal's Top Gun hulls and its variations (Dove and Quail field loads, etc.) use the same hull design as Estates*.

    Hodgdon's on-line manual lists recipes for Nitros, STS and Gun Clubs in the same section. At least for Hodgdon powders, Gun Clubs ARE the same as STS for reloading purposes.

    There is some published data for Cheddite hulls. I suspect Rio's and certain other cheapo hulls are of Cheddite origin. However, I've never been able to get any powder company source to say Rio's, Kemen's, Diana's or any other named hull is a Cheddite hull to which the data applies.

    sissy
     
  4. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    592
    Joe, Alliant refers to the Top Gun/Estate hull as the "Federal Hi Power Plastic Shells with Rolled Paper Base Wad" and they have 1 oz and 1 1/8 oz target loads listed on their website.

    Hodgdon refers to the Top Gun/Estate hull as the "Federal Hi Power Plastic Shells with Fiber Base Wad". They have a 1 1/8 oz load with Universal listed on their website.

    ~Michael
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    I use Top Guns and Super Target shells for Singles and Doubles but I don't like the extra effort required to resize the steel base and so I only reload the premium hulls with a brass base.
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    Just be careful with the Rio, Kemen hulls. The basewads have been known to come loose and migrate up into the hull. That does not mean they will blow up or damage a gun, just that the potential is there. A quick visual inspection of the basewad with a strong light might be enough to cull out the bad ones. The Federal/Estate paper base wad type hulls have been known to separate the head from the tube on occasion. Be very careful about these hulls that have gotten wet. The basewad will look different after a soaking and will actually have swelled up around the primer opening when viewed from the hull mouth.

    The Cheddite data seems to work for the Rio, Kemen, etc. The Federal/Estate paper base wad styles hulls can use the Gold Medal data. Just be very careful in ALL instances to use loads that develop much lower pressures than the max. That adds a little safety margin. I have also found that the wads designed and intended for straight walled hulls seem to give the best results. My favorite being the Federal 12S0 or clone for 1oz.
     
  7. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,297
    The load I am currently using is a 7/8 Oz. 8 1/2's in a STS/Nitro or Gun Club hull with 18.2 gr. of Titewad fired up by a Win 209 pushing a Claybuster 4100 wad out the pipe (from the Hodgdon book). This load works very well for me from the 16 yd line (except for when the BB's go where I POINT them not where I WANT them to go). The targets seem to bust up just fine when I DO point the BB's where I want them to go.

    I have built up a goodly number of Top Gun shells in the past couple of years and I figure if I can get one or two loadings from them it should just about cover 1000 wads and primers and exhaust the shot I have on hand. Then I can clean out a fair size portion of the basement floor and maybe even be able to walk around the loading bench once again. Once the shot and shells are gone I will have to figure out what to do next, buy factory, restock loading supplies or clean and pack the irons away.

    With the info posted above, it looks like I can reload these TGs and stretch them out for a bit more use. The Rio's look like they are headed for the trash can. Thanks to all who replied.
     
  8. 6878mm

    6878mm Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    160
    I think what this fellow is getting at is, what wad??
    With straight wall cases , a Gulandi type wad needs to be used, Reifenhauser I think is what the hulls are called
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.