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What makes trap guns shoot high??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by welderman, May 19, 2008.

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  1. welderman

    welderman TS Member

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    I did some shooting from a type of lead sled that brings the gun back to its initial POA after each shot and noticed that the trap gun I was shooting produces a pattern with a center about 15 inches above the POA at 30 yards. I use a laser bore sight which agrees with the gun beads as far as POI is concerned, but the pattern center is about 15 inces above the POA at 30 yards. How do they get the gun to shoot higher than the direction it is pointed? Tom S. (welderman)
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Laser bore sights = f'ing worthless.
     
  3. at_trap_89

    at_trap_89 TS Member

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    Magic. Actually, if you look closer you'll find its shooting exactly where it is pointing. Saying a gun shoots other[higher] than where its pointed is a physical impossibility. A gun shoots straight...straight from the muzzle just isn’t always where you’re looking for it to hit...there is no point of "aim" on a shotgun..the beads are simple reference pieces so you can see that you're aligned when mounting the gun. Scatterguns are built for pointing.. The POI is where-ever you want to break the target..some people like a flat 5" high at 30yds...others like to never loose sight of the bird and shoot a POI of 15" or better at 30yds.

    The high POI found on trap guns is a result of the combination of either a straight stock or high comb, and a generous vent rib. Your eye is the back sight - raise it and your hits move up (etc.). Raise the muzzle end of the rib up and your POI goes back down and vice versa.

    If you look at the rib/barrel they are not parallel..so while you may be looking straight down a flat rib..that barrel is now angled upwards. If you want that to change, you can either lower the comb, or put a higher add-on rib on the barrel (or, if its adjustable, raise it).
     
  4. WarEagle2017

    WarEagle2017 Active Member

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    Hey buzz gun I would like to know why you say that they are worthless, then I'll tell you how to use one that is not worthless.
     
  5. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    I understand the design of the rib, higher at the action end/lower at the muzzle, but I have also read on here that choke tubes and barrels can be made to shoot high. I was under the impression that trap guns were, by design, made to shoot higher than the point of aim in order to keep up with the time lapse between the sight picture when the trigger was pulled and the raising rate of climb of the target. Is it only a function of the comb and rib that make a trap gun?

    JON
     
  6. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    "Is it only a function of the comb and rib that make a trap gun?" Not in all cases Jon. K-guns adjust barrels using different hangers. Applying force to those barrels is the equivalent of "bending" the barrels.

    Yes choke tubes can be made to change the POI of a particular barrel but since choke tubes are relatively short, the change is going to be very abrupt and I have no idea what that will do to the actual pattern (as far as symmetry goes).

    Barrel bending is a joke. Steel has a long memory and will return original (straight) state unless you kink it. But this is the basis of how the K-guns adjust with thier barrel hanger system. Of course, the K-gun barrels cannot change unless you use a different hanger.
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Doc,

    The only kind I ever saw that was worth a hoot was the kind Fred Wenig uses to fit stocks, the kind that inserts into the choke...I consider that to be more of a "choke sighter" rather than a bore sighter, and even then, Fred was able to get it to point different places by jiggling it. But the kind that sit inside the chamber, the kind that show you where any part of the barrel other than the choke is pointing...f'ing worthless.
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    welderman I know that this might sound a little weird but mount your trap gun and close the eye that is over the rib. Then with the off eye look at the angle of the barrel(not the rib)you should see that the barrel has a definite upward angle.

    Years ago all of the manufacturers used to include in their specs. the drop at the comb and heel om all types of shotguns(field,skeet,sporting,and trap) the trap stock always had the least amount of drop at the comb. Which I feel make the trap gun shoot the highest out of the box. Today everything is adjustable comb,rib,length of pull, and even the triggers are adjustable so they don't seem to list the dimensions as the once did.

    I do believe that the difference in the drop in the comb has a lot to do with fact that a trap gun shoot high as you call it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    it's Magic
     
  10. Kemen053

    Kemen053 Member

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    Tom,the chamber may not be true to the end of the barrel,thats why the sight that fits into the choke is more accurate than the chamber type.Ross
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A shotgun has a front and rear sight. The front sight is the front bead or the end of the barrel. The rear sight is your eye. If you raise the rear sight or lower the front sight, the gun will shoot higher.

    Bending barrels will also change the POI. My K-80 is designed to have the barrels bent by the rib in my unsingle and hangers in my doubles barrel. Bending other barrels is also possible. Some are actually unintentionally bent at the factory and will shoot to the right or left. (Gary- Bending a barrel may not always be permanent, but some adjust our sights frequently and barrels can be bent again every year or so).

    Choke tubes can be made to change the POI. Some tubes not designed to change the POI actually change the POI without the shooter knowing it has been changed.

    After many years of experience, I have concluded that the easiest way to raise the POI of a shotgun is to simply lift your head off the stock just before you pull/release the trigger. Has anyone else ever done this? It will change the POI.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. SR1

    SR1 TS Member

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    Picking your head up will do it also lol.
     
  13. jerryw

    jerryw TS Member

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    Lifting head. Good point Pat, I have been there and do that, too often.

    Jerry Walker
     
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