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What is the avg. score posted by avg. shooter?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by trw, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. trw

    trw Member

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    Perhaps its been discussed before & I missed it. Anyway, what does the average ATA 16 yard shooter score? Are there any statistics by age group? Also what is the average yardage for handicap shooters. In both cases, speaking to the overall ATA membership. Does any one know?
     
  2. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Polite question, "who wants to be average"? Most of us strive to be a lot better than average, just saying, no disrespect intended. Scott
     
  3. plaw

    plaw Active Member

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    It would depend if you are just starting or have been shooting for some time.Some go through a slump,be it physical or maybe changing guns. You could get an ATA avarage book and it should give you something to go by.
     
  4. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Voluntary and involuntary sandbagging rules now.
     
  5. Hookedonshooting

    Hookedonshooting TS Member

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    Well the term average is relative to the folks u run with. I have shot for 2 yrs now and average 21 to 23.not great but its better than my average from last year. Had to realize i needed to stop shooting multiple guns. Pick one and stay with it.
     
  6. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Some days are great and some days suck. Maybe an average over a lifetime (I keep track of that) will give you an indication of where you headed at that moment in you shooting career. Mine is mostly a short topped wave. Down in the winter up in the summer.
     
  7. mich746

    mich746 Member

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    In my limited experience I guess there are 5% who always break big numbers, 5% who just don't shoot well but enjoy themselves as much or more as others. The rest of us average 93% in ATA events with the occasional big number. Practice numbers may be a little higher.

    I really don't know, just the way it seems to me.
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    In 2012 the median singles average was 0.900. The mean was .0.8681

    The median yardage was 20 yards.

    Neil
     
  9. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Neil,
    Thanks, you are always great at getting the facts. Hope you are summering well back there in the land of Norsck and Sauer Kraut with a smattering of Bohunks. Scott
     
  10. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Neil,

    Just to double-check my understanding and interpretation...

    In 2012, half the reported ATA registered competition Single scores were above 90.00% and half were below ?

    Is that right ?

    While ATA registered competition for Singles commonly refers to 100-shot events, and recognizing that 50 and 200-shot events do exist, for the Saturday afternoon recreational shooter shooting his 25 targets, 90% of 25 is 22½ so when he shooters 23 or better he is above the median of ATA registered shooters. Right ?



    Hammer

    .
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Hammer1, A column was all scrunched up and I see that of the 26,952 members who shot singles last year and in that list, shooter 13,472 had a 0.9011 average, not 0.9000. There were, in fact 422 with 0.9000 though.

    When a shooter breaks a 23 in 25 he is averaging 0.920 and, if he does it all the time, is doing better than 60% of our ATA brethren.

    Neil
     
  12. David J Comroe

    David J Comroe Active Member

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    Neil,

    Please tell me you aren't averaging a collection of averages!? I'm trying to frame in my mind what the median average would mean exactly....I suppose that this takes into account those that shoot 100 targets as well as those that shoot 100,000?
     
  13. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Hammer: Yes and Yes.

    David: Don't confuse yourself. The median average of 90 simply means that half the ATA shooters had an average above 90 and half were below.

    -Neil's flunky Gary ;)
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    David, yes, I do average a collection of averages to get the mean. I do remember that Pat Ireland always insisted that it wasn't permitted but I never understood why he thought so.

    I think that the median is a better representative of the whole group because there is a ceiling of 100 and even just below that there's a limit on how good a shooter can get while on the downside, there's really hardly any limit at all on how badly a shooter can do. That's what accounts for the unexpectedly large spread between median and mean which generally for a huge population like this, you would expect to be a lot closer.

    It is not a weighted average so yes, the 100 and 100,000 target shooters are treated in the same way. I would expect that were the averages weighted the mean and median would be far more similar.

    If I get some time I'll calculate the weighted average and see how close that is to the median.

    Neil
     
  15. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Averages of averages are used all the time in statistical work. Read any discussion of Statistical Process Control.

    The median is also used frequently for the reason that Neil gives. Skewed distributions like trap scores are sometimes better understood by their median. The median is not as influenced by extreme high or extreme low values.

    .
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    And, David, weighting averages can lead to strange results. The first time I calculated places on a Minnesota State team I used weighted averages since I thought that would be a fairer system.

    I showed the tentative result to the Alternate Delegate T.S. and he pointed out that Shooter A could have higher averages in all three: singles, handicap, and doubles and still have a lower overall weighted average than shooter B who had lower_ individual_ averages in every discipline.

    That made little sense to me so from then on I just averaged averages of singles, handicap, and doubles and it seemed to put the best shooters about where they belong on the teams, which is, after all, the final aim of any statistical analysis.

    Neil
     
  17. bubbasdad92

    bubbasdad92 Member

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    Here is info from an old post on the topic:

    From: Pocatello
    Date: Thu, Mar 15, 2012 - 03:17 PM ET
    Email:

    This is from the 2008 data, the last I have.
    There were 31653 who registered some ATA targets that year.
    31301 (98.9%) of those registered at least some singles. Five of them registered only 25 singles, eighty-seven registered only 50, and three registered 75.

    11,105 registered at least 1000 singles. That's 35.1% of those who registered any targets, and 35.5% of those who registered any singles. Let's call those the active singles shooters.

    For the six class system in singles, AAA through D, the ATA Rulebook recommends the following cutoffs (followed by the number of the active shooters meeting the guidelines, and the percent of active singles shooters). Since the only shoots using a six-class system are the Grand, regional grands, regional zones, and other very large shoots, I believe these guidelines are always followed. At least I've never seen it otherwise.

    AAA 98% and above, 504 shooters, 4.5%.

    AA 96.75% and under 98%, 1683 shooters, 15.2%.

    A 94.75% and under 96.75%, 1902 shooters, 17.1%.

    B 93.00% and under 94.75%, 2031 shooters, 18.3%.

    C 90.00% and under 93.00%, 2374 shooters, 21.4%.

    D under 90.00%, 2611 shooters, 23.5%.

    The lowest average among the active shooters was 47.94% on 1700 singles. All other averages were above 50%, although some were not much above. The highest singles average among active shooters was 99.74% on 3400 targets.
     
  18. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Using the average of a group of averages is fine for compiling data to determine state teams where your trying to determine who are the best all around shooters based on their singles, handicap, and doubles averages.


    It's not an accurate when you want to, for example, determine what the 16yard average was for all the shooters in the state.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    That's why I did the median first, Jerry; I agree. I think the median shooter is "more typical."

    And the state team isn't concerned with average shooters anyway, is it?

    Neil
     
  20. tachyon

    tachyon Member

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    A few years ago an athletic director at a school fairly near to us was under fire for the poor graduation rate of the football players. He responded by writing an article that was published in the school paper which stated that the average of all the fall sports male athletes was 2.7 (on a 4.0 scale) which was higher than the average of the male non athletes. The school had two fall sports. Football had more than 100 players and had a GPA of 1.8. Golf, the other fall sport, had four players with an average of 3.6. If you average 1.8 and 3.6 is 2.7. Of course if you average all the players then the average is about 1.82. That is why taking the average of averages is not appropriate in all cases. A couple of weeks after his article a student reporter pointed out the fallacy of his claims. The reporter learned a lot about the power of an athletic director. The student transferred to another school the next year.

    Of course, if you are comparing three different events (singles, handicap, doubles) then taking the average of averages is one legitimate way of doing things.