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What is the "3 hole target rule" ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Tony Fortino, Dec 5, 2009.

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  1. Tony Fortino

    Tony Fortino Member

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    ?? What is the "3 hole target rule" ??

    Tony Fortino
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    Under a "3-hole target" regime the the trap oscillates (about) 22 degrees to the right of a straightaway from post three and the same amount to the left, giving total spread of targets of about 44 degrees.

    Under a "2-hole target" regime the the trap oscillates (about) 17 degrees to the right of a straightaway from post three and the same amount to the left, giving a total spread of targets of about 34 degrees.

    The effect is that the 3-hole system leads to sharper angles from one and five, now and then.

    The most recent period in which 3-hole targets were required was about May, 1995 until late August, 1996. Three-hole targets were also thrown until the early to mid 1980's, most places I hear. Thereafter, 2-hole targets predominated, again, most places I hear.

    The present rule is that 2-hole is the minimum target spread of legal targets, though wider spreads are permitted if any club wants to throw them to accommodate the wishes of local shooters, host a "back to the 60's" event, or indeed for any - or no - reason at all.

    Neil
     
  3. Francis Marion

    Francis Marion Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    Just to add a little bit to what Neil said. On the older machines, I am familiar with the remington autos and the classic Winchester Western hand sets. There is a plate with numbered holes. What Neil is talking about is the hole number you put the pin in to set the machine.The number three hole gave your target field a bigger spread. The two hole had less spread, hence easier targets.Some clubs wanted you to earn your targets, they set the three hole. Some clubs wanted better scores and happier customers, two hole targets.If I remember correctly, and it's been a long time, the nine hole was straight away targets.
     
  4. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    What is the

    Thanks, Steve, and Neil too. I've known the gist of what you both said for a long time (used to set targets on those old WW machines - back in the dark ages when electricity was still experimental...) but a kid didn't adjust the traps! Never did know how to set a straightaway, for teaching purposes. Now I do, 40 years later.
     
  5. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    What is the

    I attended a 100 target fun shoot at Southend (Reading Pa.) last week. They used four traps. Trap #1 was set to 2 hole, next trap was 3 hole, next trap 4 hole and the last trap was 5 hole.

    If you want to have some fun, try it. Those 5 hole hard angles are really extreme. I think the high score for the day was a 99.

    Lets all go back to 3 hole targets in registered shooting!!!!!!!!!!!

    Frank
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    What is the

    Frank: Well said.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    That might be the toughest of the shooting exercises I've ever heard about.
     
  8. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    Barry, it wasn't as tough as you might expect. The wide angles were like wing shooting. I ran the 4-hole and only dropped one hard right on the 5-hole. However, I also missed two dead straight aways on the 5-hole. Go figure???? The shoot was a hoot.

    3-hole targets for ATA. Naaugh! Let's go right to 4-hole.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    What is the

    Shooting those 4 and 5 hole targets made me realize that the 3 hole is nothing. The majority of shooters today have never shot anything but 2 hole fluffers and wouldn't know or care what hole they're in. The only complainers would likely be a few old shoot for average specialists, Handicap event dominaters and others who couldn't break 'em in any hole setting.

    Go back to the original rule book requirement that stated (not less than a 3 hole target)!!
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    ZZT, Were these handsets or Super Star's? Sounds interesting. Bob
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    They were not handsets, Bob, although the club does have a few traps still equipped with handset machines. They used SS adjusted to throw the required angles.

    We are going to experiment with the same thing at our club, although I'm not sure we can get true 5-hole targets from a Pat trap.
     
  12. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    zzt. Not without some work and then you've got to spend that time to center your field again. I know what you mean and don't want to start one of those conversations again. Probably not worth the effort for you to do it. We have both brands so it's not an issue for us if we wanted to try it. I thought it sounded good, the 4 OK, the 5 should be interesting. Maybe, we could start with the 2 holer on wobble, same speed. You've planted a seed! LOL. Bob
     
  13. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    What is the

    I guess I'm missing something. The only difference 3 hole makes is how hard an angle you can get it adds a few degrees on the very most outside targets. Everyone seems to think this made the game way so much harder. How many of those worst angles do you usually get per 25? I don't see how it makes as much difference as some believe unless you were really unlucky and got 15 or 20 screaming lefts and rights per round. Looks to me like once you learn how to hit them they will be like every other trap target, learn where to point the gun and break them.

    And before someone says it, no I'm not the greatest and miss more than my share of any of them.
     
  14. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    What is the

    Did anyone ever finish the study of how many angle targets per round of trap that a Pat trap throws vs. the old Western Trap?
     
  15. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

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    What is the

    My idea of the three hole target was the 2 holes were for the angle of the target and the 3rd hole was for the guy that thought of it.
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    The 2 through 5 format sounds like a much more challenging handicap game and one that would be a lot of fun. Just a thought on registering such difficult targets with ATA, those looking for higher averages wouldn't want to play the game? Registering targets with that format could be a blessing in disguise for the average ATA fun shooters without the thought of having to shoot near perfect scores to stand a chance of placing? The farther away from the target, tougher angles become the shooters enemy for precise pointing. That scenario would dispel the perfection notion in a hurry to anyone!! Matter of opinion, we should encourage club operators the game should be registered! Bring on the challenge!

    Hap
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    They can register them now, Hap. I think they should disclose in the program what their plans are, but if people want it, clubs are not prevented from giving them what they want by the present rules.

    You live near Tucson; get them to do it. I think it might be hard to get a lot of 27-yard shooters to do it but who knows?

    Neil
     
  18. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    What is the

    I’ve seen the same solution offered up every time there’s a thread about the three hole target by those that supported the change, namely, “there is nothing preventing you from shooting three hole targets now”.


    For those that are relatively new to trapshooting shooting (post 1996) the issue is one of the affect the 1995 official rule change has had on the sport.


    Very simply Neil and all those that voted for the change in 1995 made the sport easier. They changed the minimum target angle from 44 degrees to 34 degrees.


    That was the equivalent of lowering the basket in basket ball, shortening and widening the fairways in golf, and shortening the 100 yard dash to 90 yards, pretending like nothing changed, then ignoring the results of the change.


    The result of that change is higher scores, higher averages, more ties, longer shoot-offs, and the collapse of the handicap system.


    What Neil and those that think as he does don’t understand is there has never been a change to a sport that involved making sport easier that’s been successful.


    The 1995 change should have been the catalyst that increased membership and participation at registered shoots.


    The reality has been the opposite.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    zzt, how quickly the intent or direction of a thread changes. I know I didn't, and am sure you had no intention of such targets being registered. I think it would be interesting to see a scoreboard of different settings like we'd discussed. If there were major differences in the scores per field, it would jump right out at you. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
  20. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    What is the

    okay, now I need a clarification. Can anyone tell me what the actual angles are for 4- and 5-hole targets? I'm certain the angles for some of the "5-hole" targets thrown at South End were outside the 54 deg allowable for a registered shoot.

    Hap, I was thinking the exact same thing. However, consider how all the worrywarts will howl about sandbaggers. Just imagine, they shoot a lot of 5-hole handicaps at their home clubs, get lots of reductions, then shoot short yardage at the Grand and clean up. I can see the treads now and the howls of anguish. Unfair! UnAmerican! There ought to be a law.
     
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