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What is it with Remington??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Tron, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I recently had a chance to handle/shoot the new Remington Versa-Max and I must say, this is the most impressed that I've been with the Big Green in a long time. It seems like they finally got it right with this auto loader, but the problem is, it appears to only be available in a field model. This is REALLY pathetic! Why not offer a target stock configuration and a choice of ribs???

    Once again, they are dropping the ball and wonder why nobody wants their new design!
     
  2. drgondog

    drgondog Member

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    I wonder what the semi auto market looks like for Trap vs O/U? The barrel/rib combo is easy to test market without huge investment but requires some thought about a.) rib design. b.) point of impact change design.

    Stock changes include even adjustable combs are an easy design change to CNC production if the Trap market changes are identified and deemed worth the investment.
     
  3. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    The Freedom Group is more interested in the huge profits being generated with Bushmaster, DPMS/Panther, and Para. Maybe when black-guns and handgun sales slow down, they will do something good with Remington and Marlin.

    Wayne
     
  4. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to buy one of their synthetic competition trap model 1100's, but they said demand exceeded production and would not be available until the first of the year. Go figure.
     
  5. fast gun

    fast gun Active Member

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    I got a chance to look at the new marlin lever gun. The quality is not as good as the pre buy out marlins Checkering just wasnt as good I guess time will tell The versamax is nice A trap grade would be even nicer
     
  6. beretta-guy

    beretta-guy TS Member

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    Stay tuned....a sporting version is coming.
     
  7. shotgun 1

    shotgun 1 Member

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    Tron,
    How was the trigger pull? I had an early one and that was the only thing I could really find fault with. It fed everything, recoil was quite tolerable, no reliability issues, but the trigger pull was really long and heavy. If they fixed that, it could indeed have a future on target ranges. There is quite a bit of adjustability in the stock between the internal adjustment plate and the interchangeable combs, a combination that gives a significant bit more change than the Beretta shim system.
    Dave
     
  8. beretta-guy

    beretta-guy TS Member

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    The 3200 was a great gun. From what I heard the problem was the cost to make it. I would love to see Remington reintroduce the 3200, with some modifications, but it would probably have to cost $5k. I would be interested but I don't know how well they would do.
     
  9. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Shotgun 1, the trigger wasn't very good, but in my opinion, far better than the Beretta A400's high poundage gravel set up. I think this gun has a lot of potential.

    Jb
     
  10. DoubleAuto

    DoubleAuto Well-Known Member

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    Is there any way to have the trigger improved aftermarket?
     
  11. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Back in the dark ages, when I started shooting clays, we went through Desert Storm and had powder shortages. I hunted high and low for my powders and finally ended up talking directly to the producers.

    What I learned was that all target sports, combined was only around 8% of their business; so guess who suffered during times of need? With the majority of the market going to survival and home defense it just doesn't make economic sense to produce to the smaller markets. Econ 101, provide for your A-list customers, turn your B-list customers into A's, and send your C/D customers to your weakest competitor.

    Sad, BUT TRUE. I would also like to see a target model Versa......maybe someday, after Hillary's terms are over.....???

    Kip
     
  12. 4painter

    4painter Member

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    I heard Hal Dupont owns the patent to the famous rem 32 in his safe as well as the patent to the 3200 locked up, dont know if remington can reintroduce even if they wanted to.
     
  13. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    The Remington M-32 was introduced in the middle of the great depression. Expensive to manufacture and lagging sales, Hal Dupont bought the patent rights of the M-32. Dupont shopped around and in 1950 settled with Kreighoff to have the M-32 reworked into the K-32, and the rights to import the K-32 to Europe and America.

    Remington, relizing the huge mistake they made giving up the rights to the M-32, came out with the 3200 in 1973. Several things were not going good for the 3200. Rushed into production, forearms and iron had problems, receiver face was soft, firing pins would elongate holes, etc.

    By this time Kreighoff had so many improvements to the K-32, it now became the K-80, and the rest is history.

    Wayne
     
  14. shotgun 1

    shotgun 1 Member

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    I've done a bunch of triggers in different guns over the years. I worked on the Versa Max trigger, admittedly without a lot of expectation for success, just taking it to "decent". It doubled. There is a lot of sear engagement in the gun and after my experience with the trigger, I suspect it has to be there to keep the sear engaged during functioning. One could slick it up a bit, but the length of pull generated by the depth of the engagement seemed to me to preclude getting a decent pull on the gun. There are smarter trigger guys than me, so maybe someone can figure it out, but...
    Dave
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    The quickest way for a manufacturer to recoup his new product investment are to design products aimed at the largest market not the smallest. Almost all target pumps and autos are field gun dervatives with the exception of Butler, Fabarms and a few others. It's the field guns that drive these configurations to larger buying audience, not target guns.

    To most high volume pump and auto manufacturers target guns are a secondary item but still are important part of the overall product mix as they cast a halo of quality over the brand. Field based target guns normally yeild much larger profits with much lower volumes requiring minor modifications to existing guns to serve specialty markets.

    Past history suggests once a new field gun is established target configurations will follow.

    As far as a manufacturer chasing one market segment more aggressively over another, smart business says time, energy and money is best served supplying underserved markets or those with the highest profit potential.

    Surfer
     
  16. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Remington has barely stayed in the trap market with the 870 and 1100 trap target models They dpended mostly on sales of the STS shell in the trap/skeet market. Rudy Etchen defeinetly had a voice at Remington, so did Dick Baldwin. Those men are gone now! Now a holding company has them and the college boy bean counters are running the show! They know NOTHING of the target shooting sports and care even less! They hired a few attractive young ladies for eye effect but have very few really IN THE KNOW sales reps. now. Most of the old Trap/Skeet guys are all retired now. I think the hay day of Big Green is long gone!
     
  17. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Any patent on the Remington 32, Krieghoff 32, Remington 3200, or Krieghoff K80 has LONG since expired. They are basically public domain at this point, to be copied at will.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Will 1100/1187 buttstocks fit the Versa-Max?
     
  19. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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    No, stocks are not interchangeable.
    Ken
     
  20. NJCOP

    NJCOP TS Member

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    My queston is why would they make it into a trap gun when there's already the 1100 and 870 and the 11-87 Trap never lasted in production? What would be the advantage of a Versa over an 1100? (I really don't know as I've never handled one) The gun is far more expensive and 870s and 1100s have been crushing birds for decades. What's to improve upon except stock offerings and a better trigger. It would be just one more flavor of coffee when there's nothing wrong with coffee flavored coffee.
     
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