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What is Gained by Cheating with Reloads?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by hunter44, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    If I have a gun & load that will throw a nice, full pattern at 40-45 yds. how could I cheat with a reload that would buy me another target or two? Using a
    heavier load will only cause more shot to deform & probably wont pattern better than a legal load.....using a faster load will accomplish the same thing with a battered shoulder as a bonus. I really don't care what another shooter uses for a load as I see no advantage to be gained with an illegal shell.......were the distance of the target longer, maybe, maybe not but not at the 40-45 break distance of a handicap target. I think that speed & load requirements are there for safety purposes, not because that shell can "buy" another X. Can someone PROVE to me that an illegal load will result in a better score?

    IMHO the extra X's that end up on the sheet by cheating are from buddy squading & the old, "I chipped that one", "ya, I saw it", teenage scorer crosses out the 0, replaces it with an X, & old buddy wins class by one bird!

    I believe the real loser in this factory shell requirement (if it holds up) is the shooter who buys components in bulk & spends all winter reloading "his or her" loads only to learn now that they are no good to shoot at the Grand.
     
  2. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    i have seen cheating with reloads during calcuttas. in the Wisconsin winters, targets sit outside and are frozean, harder to break. some people i know will use larger size shot during the handicap event. anytime you have money on the table, it brings out the cheiselers.
    steve balistreri
     
  3. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Guess I've never seen a frozen target at the Grand.
     
  4. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    The self satisfaction and honor of knowing you are not good enought to win fairly but are willing to degrade yourself by cheating.
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Steve, you knew the guys were cheating by using larger shot to win the calcutta? If it wasn't an ATA shoot, no foul unless it was a shoot or club rule mandating ATA required standards for ammo shot size. Did you report it to club officials if it was in fact a violation of either?

    Time to put the pressure on the shoulders of shooters wanting to bend either the ammo rules or buddy squad cheating!! Ban for life the one caught for doing the deed and additionally, any squadmate helping to perpetuate the buddy squad cheating!! How many of those guys would toe the line in an ATA shoot with cheating on their mind? That would be a rule with a severe bite that all fair minded sportsmen could be comfortable with. Once applied a time or two, this cheating paranoia would diminish immensely!!

    Hap
     
  6. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    Let's just have "SHOOT WHAT YOU BRING" one rule 12ga or smaller, all 27yds, no classes, you want to win, you shoot heads-up, no vets, SR vets, women, jr...just one class, then you know who the best really is......Grubby...
     
  7. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    GrubbyJack for President!
     
  8. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    Thank you, but NO,

    too many skeletons and I don't believe in abortion, but after reading some post on here, I'm re-thinking retro-active abortions...Grubby
     
  9. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    ask the games shooters
     
  10. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Do the games shooters break all their targets at 40-45 yds.?
     
  11. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    hunter44, The only advantage would be to use more shot than allowed.
     
  12. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    How about $100k?
     
  13. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hap me tweaks:
    yes i reported it after he showed me the size 6's he was using. management said he didn't win, they would talk to him. long story short, nothing was said to him from management.
    steve
     
  14. zarathrusta

    zarathrusta TS Member

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    Doesn't matter if it's a club shoot or The Grand - Make the rule(s) whatever you want, the same people win anyway.
     
  15. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    What is to be gained by cheating with reloads? Just speaking of shot and not velocity here.

    A shooter may get a slight advantage with 1 1/4 ounces of shot, the extra payload may cause a target that was not hit squarely to be broken instead of dusted. All of you who ever pick up targets have found unbroken targets with holes in the top typically. An extra couple pellets may result in a chip or allow for the bird to crack and thus break.

    Typically 1 1/4 is used for larger shot sizes such as copper plated 6 shot to make up for any pattern holes, the result of less pellets because of the larger shot size. 1 1/8 of copper plated 6 shot just does not pattern very good at 40 yards. Copper plating also results in less deformed shot, and better pattern results. A side note, If you are considering using copper-plated shot, soak the pellets in printers ink before you load them because copper really shines bright when shot on a sunny day.

    The downside is the recoil associated with the extra payload. 1 1/8 is the standard because 100 targets with 1 1/4 will really wear a man down. If you do not believe it, find a couple boxes of AA Super Pigeon 1 1/4 6's, shoot 50 and you will be ready to quit.

    The facts are that the shooter still has to "do the job" of pointing the shotgun and hitting the target, there is no magic involved with illegal loads.

    Illegal shells are very similar to the steroids in baseball issue. Steroids only made Bonds and McGuire stronger, it did nothing to improve their coordination skills and the ability to make contact with the ball.
     
  16. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I shoot nothing but games anymore and our club allows whatever you want to shoot. ( we have 40 cares so no foul) There is definately a difference on long back ups etc but if you are shooting 16-27 yds at a reg event, I dont know why you would want to reload or cheat on a shell. You will never break 100 str with a hot shell because you will be lifting the brain housing group before you finish
     
  17. Beretta Blue

    Beretta Blue TS Member

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    faster speed = standing closer...........Think about it!!!! if your standing on the 27 yd. line and shooting 1400 fps its like standing on the 23 yd line. Thats why hot shells unlevel the playing field. 1400 fps on the 20 yd line is like shooting from the 16 yd station. Now you know.

    Jack
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    How does that work, Jack? Specifically?

    Neil
     
  19. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    This will be good......
     
  20. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Jack

    If you think shooting an 1 1/2 ounces of 6's going 1400fps in a hundred bird race is an advantage you are 100% correct. But is sure is not an advantage to the shooter..it is for your competitors!

    Mark
     
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