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what is dram

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by maclellan1911, Jul 21, 2007.

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  1. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    what is dram? how do you convert dram to grains
     
  2. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    dram /dræm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dram] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, drammed, dram·ming.
    –noun 1. Measurements. a. a unit of apothecaries' weight, equal to 60 grains, or 1/8 ounce (3.89 grams).
    b. 1/16 ounce, avoirdupois weight (27.34 grains; 1.77 grams). Abbreviation: dr., dr
     
  3. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Don't know which definition is appropriate, revsublime or mine, but I found this: "A unit of weight in the U.S. Customary System equal to 1/16 of an ounce or 27.34 grains (1.77 grams)." But I think your question is what are we talking about when speaking of 2 3/4 dram equivalent or 3 dram equiv., or so on, eh? If so, during black powder days, long guns were loaded with these measurements of black powder (e.g. 3 drams or 3 1/2 drams et cetera) and in our smokeless powder conversions, we learned that X # of grains of smokeless powder was equivalent of Y # of drams of black powder and the term on boxes of shells stuck for a good number of years. So you'll still see shot shells marked "3 DE" (drams equivalent) which means little more than a velocity comparison....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  4. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    not sure which is right...but the black powder definition is surely the one you're asking about.

    Kinda wish they would just drop the Dram Equivalency and go with grains & fps
     
  5. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Too many of us are used to the old "Dram Equivalent", just like when back in the 1970s there was this huge push to get us converted to the metric system.

    I wouldn't trust any comparisons of X smokeless = Y black powder.
     
  6. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    ya just dont hear many reloaders sayin..."oh, I reload these to 3 dram".
     
  7. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    HI
    Unless you need the conversiont to load grains of black powder or Pyrodex substitute, don't load modern powder to the dram equivalent number.

    The Dram Equivalent (DE) is a velocity reference with a paticular amount of shot.

    For the 12 ga. here are velocities.

    With 1 1/8 oz of shot:

    2 3/4 DE = 1145 f/s

    3 DE = 1200 f/s

    3 1/4 DE = 1255 f/s

    With 1 oz of shot:

    2 3/4 DE = 1180 f/s

    3 DE = 1235 f/s

    Jason
     
  8. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I was told that one of the reasons "dram equivalent" is still around today is that some shell producers use proprietary powders or powder mixes. They won't say they use so many grains of such powder, so they can use dram eq.

    I got this from a Remington phone rep, if I recall correctly.

    Danny
     
  9. X Trap 2

    X Trap 2 TS Member

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    A three dram load is any 1 1/8 ounce load that produces a speed of 1200 feet per second. Ray.......
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    My question derives from what ive heard around the range. "dram is the amount of powder" That did not make sense to me. Being a long time since i have looked at a conversion chart, something told me 3 dram would be a lot of powder in the grains scale. i came up with 3 dram = 180 gr ? some questions never seem to get a full answer down on the range. New to trap shooting I try to weed out the BS. Thanks guys
     
  11. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    3 drams would be just over 82 grains.
     
  12. Harold

    Harold TS Member

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    If you go to Google and type in dram to grain conversion you will get "1 drams = 27.34375 grains."

    The problem with asking questions like this on trapshooters.com is that you will probably get the right answer, but then you will get a bunch of wrong answers, then you will have to go to an authoritative source to figure out which one was correct.
     
  13. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    so far most are making sense
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    X trap2, a three dram load is any load which will produce twenty random, representative shells whose _average_ speed is between 1100 and 1290 fps.

    Neil
     
  15. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I have found 2 conversions dram= avoirdupois and Dram= apothecaries, which applies to shotshells? one is 27 grain the other 60 ?
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The 27 grain one.

    Neil
     
  17. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Here is an answer from the Remington web site. Everyone could go to grains of such-and-such powder if they would reveal what their powders were. If they don't do that, and keep the proprietary powder a secret, then they have to use fps or dram eq. as the load.

    Question
    What is a dram equivalent?

    Answer
    Dram equivalents were originally developed in the early 20th century to allow sportsmen an easy method of comparing the "new" smokeless powder loads to the then more familiar black powder loads. In effect, a shotshell with a 2-1/2 dram equivalent rating would be equal in velocity to a shell loaded with 2-1/2 drams of black powder--making the assumption that both shells contain the same amount of shot. Overall, the most important thing to remember is that the higher the dram equivalent, the higher the velocity for a given shot weight and, as a result, the more powerful the charge. There are no real dram equivalents for loads that didn't or couldn't exist in the black powder era. Key examples of these are steel loads and some of the heavy magnum turkey loads.

    WARNING: Dram equivalents values have no relationship to the actual powder charge in a shell! These values should never be used in determining smokeless powder charge weights!
     
  18. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Shotsells use avoirdupois drams = 27 grains. 180 grains of 2f black powder will fill the hull, no room for wad or shot!

    PS.......that is exactly what I use for New Year Eve Midnite blasts!
    I use AA hull, prime, fill with 180 grains 2f black powder, then crimp. They look just like normal loads, except much lighter ( no shot in them ) and sound like a howitzer when they go off!
     
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