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What is best RIO or Estate

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by smoke-um, Jun 11, 2009.

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  1. smoke-um

    smoke-um Active Member

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    What is best Rio or Estate or is it better to reload i can get rio or estate for 48.00 a flat?
     
  2. nanuk

    nanuk TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I have reloaded both rio and estate 28 ga hulls and find the estate far superior. regards
    Bob
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Rio shells work fine for many shooters. But, Rio is one of the brands that can vary from the description printed on the box. Simply, because the box indicates that shells contain 7.5 shot does not necessarily mean the shells are loaded with 7.5 shot. Usually, the velocity printed on the box is much less than the measured velocity.

    I prefer Estates. They are made in the USA (Rio is imported)by Federal. If you test the velocity of Estates/Rio at cold temperatures, you will become convinced that Estates use a superior powder. Chronographing shells after a day in the freezer can be enlightening. Shells advertised at 1200 ft/sec can drop down to closer to 900 ft/sec.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    I've had good results shooting light Estates with a 1100, so so with light RIO's.

    As for reloading. You need to run your cost of components to find the answer. If your buying components from Gander Mt., its cheaper to buy factory.
     
  5. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    The new Rio plant here in TN has been doing a good job of loading the shells. Truth is the money goes back to Spain. That is a personal choice.

    The rounds have been very consistent in all the global shot products (Rio, Diana, Kemen et,al). The difference in the shot size is from the metric to standard measure. The global shot products are generally smaller than the American brands. If you mic them the 7.5 is about the same or at least closer to the size of 8's.
     
  6. sshotshell

    sshotshell Member

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    Can you reload standard 209 primers in Rio hulls safely? sshotshell
     
  7. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    Estates hands down. Rio wads fracture in cold weather causing hollow sounding reports.
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Lead Man- I did not know Global Shot opened a plant in TN. Where is it located? I was under the impression that they were still imported from Spain.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. JEB

    JEB Active Member

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    Rio's are now made in McEwen, TN from Spanish components, similar to what Fiocci is doing. If they have not changed the powder, then there is still the problem with Rio's in cold weather. You can hear the Rio shooters.

    JEB
     
  10. RunGunIPSC

    RunGunIPSC TS Member

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    I HATE Estates. A lot of guys shoot them,win with them,love them. Not me. No way. Kick too much in my TM1 & other guns,dirty. Bought 4 flats several yrs ago,shot 5 boxes & about gave the rest away. Never tried to reload 12,WILL Not reload 20's. Recoil,steel head,just poor loads. And I have been shooting & reloading shotgun for 44 yrs. Got my first loader(Lee)when I got my first shotgun(Valmet O/U)
     
  11. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    A reload made with good shot and a good wad is better than any cheap shell.

    At 16 yards, I doubt it matters.

    Just my opinion.

    Don Verna
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Personally, I would use the Estates before ANY Rio, Kemen, Wolf, UEE offering. The basewads in the UEE hull have been seen to migrate up into the tube. The cold weather performance of the UEE hulls are sub-par. The shot size is not US standard. The hulls as I assess them, are not reloadable without certain precautions and increased risks. The primer size is not US standard 209. Reloading data is limited. Some of the same caveats apply to reloading the Estate Hulls, but I have never seen an Estate basewad migrate on the first firing. For equal money, I'd be shooting the Estates. That said, there are a lot of people that will shoot the Rios. I'm just not one of them. I shot one box out of the last flat I purchased. The rest were given away to people I didn't like, or were known to shoot anything.

    My experiences with the Rios were similar to Pat Ireland's, with the addition of migrating base wads. Especially the poor cold weather performance.
     
  13. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    So, as a percent of total, how much of one's shooting is in freezing or below weather? The freezing teat to me is one that addresses such a statistically small anount of shooting that it is meaningless and irrelevant,,,,so who cares??? Why don't we submerge a Kgun, Lgun, Seitz, Bowen or Pgun in water, freeze it into a solid block and then try to shoot it while still frozen......of course none will shhot----so the assumption should be that they are all inferior guns.....not.

    I have shot over 250 flats of Rios through many different guns (competition and hunting)and have never had an issue. I pull the trigger it goes bang....that's all the test needed.

    One can create a test that will validate their point of view and that is what it exactly is......their point of view.

    JMHO

    Jim C
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Bluzman98

    The degradation of velocities with the Rio shells started around 45 - 50 degrees. The entire Winter league here is shot below this temp. I actually shoot less in really hot weather, so it is a major concern for me. If you don't live in Arizona, So Cal, or the Deep South, it could become an issue for others. I have fired the Rio shells over a chronograph and compared the velocities to other shells at several temperatures. Freezer (10-15 degrees), Refrigerated (40-45), and ambient around 80. Temps were checked by both probe and infrared non-contact methods just prior to firing. It's an eye opener. The Rios, Kemens, and other UEE shells were the SECOND poorest performers I tested. Some reloads using Fiocchi primers were just a little worse. You could hear the difference in the loads on many occasions.

    If you read my previous post, I gave credits to the people that shoot them without any perception of issues. There is always a loyal following, even if the product is substandard for some. I refuse to buy a product that fails to perform to my standards. Rios failed on several counts.

    TBaber and other loyal UEE Fans, please see this url for more info: http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=19445651&imageindex=10

    TBaber, if you DO end up reading this, at least we have ONE thing in common agreement. We like the same type of vehicles, RE your Grand Marquis. :)
     
  15. Gunnerandbabe

    Gunnerandbabe TS Member

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    Calm down Jim, now go take your pill,s Jess
     
  16. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    Estates hands down best cheap shell on the market but where can you buy them for 48.00 aflat I will take 20 flats geo 3
     
  17. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Here is my take... Rio/Kemens are great. I have personally shot probably 100+ flats over the last few years and have 40 flats in inventory. I have also reloaded 50-100K of the Cheddite hulls which are used by UEE in the Rio/Kemen loading without problems. Yes they need a larger primer and careful component selection but what load does not. I load only once and throw them away. Yes they use Spanish standard shot which is a little smaller than US Standard.... no big deal... they break the target great when I do my job. Can you really tell the difference between a 7-1/2 and a 7- 3/4... Cold weather performance is something I don't worry about since I live in the south.

    Our club looked at numerous low cost producers for shell supply such as Noble Sport, Olympia, Estate, etc and found that the Kemen deal provides the best quality for the buck. Sure there are better shells and cheaper shells but there are no better cheaper shells.

    Tom
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Hey Tom,

    That WAS quick! :)

    You'd probably never notice the cold weather performance issues in Florida. It's a very different story up north. Add the cold weather issue with the migrating basewads (I shoot a gaspipe) and the Estates would be the simple choice, if limited to two. I'm not sure if UEE has addressed the basewad issues or not, but they didn't seem that worried or interested in it when I contacted them about it. I haven't even checked any hulls in the last year or so, so I couldn't say whether it's still happening. All that said, I have NEVER seen a base wad exit the hull, or found an empty hull without a baswewad inside. I have only seen the basewads migrate forward from their proper position.

    Personally, I prefer to shoot my reloads. I have a good amount of confidence in them and have tested and patterned them for comparison to premium factory loads. I would rather reload the Estate hulls, if given a choice of ONLY these two hulls. That would be limited to about two loadings in any event. The hulls I prefer to load are Green, Gold, Red, or Gray.

    So the question about which is best could very be determined by where you live and when you shoot. If Rio/UEE could get a handle on the cold weather issue, it would help. I just don't have a lot of confidence that they really care, given the contacts I had with them. The same could go for most manufacturers.
     
  19. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Quacker... I do take offense when you call me a jerk.... which jerk are you???

    On a relater front... I will not reload one of the new AA multipiece hulls. I don't think W has learned how to put them together yet where as I believe Cheddite has.

    Tom
     
  20. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    TBaber,

    I didn't coin the phrase, it was PCWORLD. No offense intended. I thought it was a bit humorous when applied to this forum. I'm sure there is a category for EVERY TS.com poster, including myself. I just can't seem to choose one for me. I have it narrowed down to about three. :) The slide show covered only the 12 most prevalent. I'm, sure we could add several to he list with all of the characters we have here.

    I can only relate to my own observations regarding hulls. I have personally observed hundreds of basewad migrations in the UEE hulls. I have YET to see any examples of such in a Win AA hull. Believe me, I HAVE looked.
     
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