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What happens when you lower payload (2)? (Winston)

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Neil Winston, Nov 19, 2010.

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  1. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OK. You have heard it all before, but you haven't heard this - at least not the part at the end. Link above.

    Neil
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    It's a good contribution to the discussion.


    Beyond a certain distance, tighter chokes increase your hit zone, not decrease it. Anyone who's shot a decent amount of long-yardage can sense this intuitively over time. But let's face it; the 2 box-a-week league shooter is never going to reach that level of understanding. Single anecdotal data points are just so much more satisfying.
     
  3. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Buzz.. I'm on your side..
     
  4. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    Hey...not even close to a Pro here. I shoot 1 oz. reloads for practice/everyday use, 1 1/8 when in tournaments. However, I don't feel handicapped if on occasion I end up shooting my 1 oz. reloads in a tournament.

    That said, seems it matters little if its Trap, Sporting, Olympics, FITASC, etc., I have yet to read or hear of one "Pro" that doesn't use the maximum load allowed when its all on the line.
     
  5. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    A few other things happen when you lower payload: lower cost, lower demand for lead, lower demand for powder.
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Isn't there close to the same amount of pellets in 1 oz of 8's as 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2's? For 16 yard there should not be any difference?? 7 1/2's or 8's?? :)
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    When one is shooting singles and ride the target way out, more shot in the pattern is best. I guess that's why 7/8ths and 1 ounce loads were tested at 40 yards? Another point, the 7/8th loads I've shot when I lowered the velocities too low were very eratic and sounded weird. Same thing but less with my 1 ounce loads.

    Bob, there's a few more pellets in 1 ounce of hard 8s than with 1-1/8 ounce of hard 7-1/2s.

    If your looking for a single trap load as a do-all load, use all the shot you can handle. You can fine tune your loads for 16 yard shooting by experimenting with less shot payloads till finding what suites your timing to your shot.

    Winchester super handicaps with 1-1/8th ounce of 7-1/2s will break any targets thrown from the traps, 16 to 27 yards, why go with less and plant more doubt in your mind? :)

    Hap
     
  8. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    How about putting the pattern on the sheet on pattern board. Could some guns pattern better with either load? Just food for thought. Bill
     
  9. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    Lots of interesting reading Neil. Thanks! More sleepless nights! Best Regards, Ed
     
  10. 20yard

    20yard TS Member

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    Anecdotally I have had my best scores this year with 1 oz light trap loads from the 16 yard line. I don't know if it is low recoil keeping me better in the gun or just luck. My perception is at the 16 it does not matter, however I wouldn't consider it at my 22 yard line handicap. We see skeet shooters easily go perfect with lighter loads so it seems to make sense at shorter distance either payload is sufficient to be perfect so if one helps fatique or concentration it is better. At distance pellet count matters as patterns thin out.
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious...

    Who are those posters on the Shotgun World and what's the source of their learnedness that their opinions set some of you all atwitter?

    MK
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Well, I know for sure that one of them is Singh and that should be credentials enough, it seems to me.

    Neil
     
  13. warpspeed

    warpspeed Member

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    Neil,

    I want to make sure I understand something.

    If I believe that I break the target with the center 20" of my shot pattern, there is no advantage to shooting 1 1/8oz over the 1 oz loads. And furthermore, if I think that I may be getting a break or 2 from the 20" - 30" dounut ring of shot, I may miss a few more of these with the 1 oz loads vs the 1 1 /8 oz loads.


    Right ?
     
  14. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Well, I know for sure that one of them is Singh and that should be credentials enough, it seems to me."</i></blockquote>I never heard of the guy and Google's no help.

    MK
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- I did look up Singh and now I know one Sanskrit word. I ain't afraid of no lions.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Singh was an Oxford-educated resident of Bangladore (in the state of Karnataka) who set up a business posting - ghosting is perhaps a better term - things on this forum for people who, for various reasons, did not want to expend either the time or effort to do it themselves. His corporate motto, "Outsourcing your Muse," set the high-class tenor of his services. He would email you a "Personality Profile" form and you would respond with a blueprint of the persona you hoped to project on TS.com. He had a small cadre of writers and, frankly, the quality of the posts appearing under your name was determined by the skill of person chosen to represent you and how much you were willing to pay. Eton, Harrow, Sandhurst, Cambridge, that level of representation was appropriately high-priced, and Singh's firm seldom dipped deeper than that.

    Your name would appear as author and the content of the post would be grammatically and orthographically impeccable (unless you checked "Kentucky" of course.) I confess I used the firm extensively for years when I had better things to do than post here. Or maybe I was off on one of the EC's yachts and had slow internet service. Better a quick email and money transfer and the security of knowing I was going to be professionally and knowledgeably "posting" here for another restful month though it would seem to me that I was spending all my time fishing and dining in far-flung oceans. For a while I'll bet a third of what appeared here under dozens of names was in fact outsourced, and it was very hard to catch Singh at it, though I did have strong suspicions a couple of times.

    But success breeds imitators willing to supply a cheaper if inferior product so there was also soon a competing cut-throat "bargain basement" alternative, penned by, according to Singh, "hacks huddling together in the sweltering gutters of Calcutta who will peck you out a page of any swill you will accept for a few rupees to buy a bottle of tea". You can still find them at work here; just ask "Would anyone who wasn't being paid write that?" and you will have your man (or woman.) You do remember last September, don't you?

    As he told me many times, Gresham's Law works its inexorable damage in every arena and eventually it hardly seemed worth it anymore, especially since the "random skreed generators" took off and practically pushed everything else off this site.

    Singh himself was liquidated in one of the great TS.com purges though I always thought it was just an example of throwing the bathwater out with the baby.

    Now and then, though, he still dips an oar.

    Neil
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- Nobody could match your imagination. Are there any ATA regulations about getting a ghost shooter? At times my average needs a little help.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Excellent bait, perfect hook set but a short fight.

    Jim brown
     
  19. The Literalist

    The Literalist Well-Known Member

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    And, Neil, you failed to mention what a pleasant fellow he is. Besides his promptness, professionalism, and reasonable fees...he never failed to be polite, often sending birthday wishes (how COULD he remember?), condolences, or atta boys with perfect timing.

    Nice looking guy, too, from the pictures I've seen. I never paid more than "Public University"-level fees, but he often segued into Ivy League-level discourse...at no extra charge!

    No, there ain't many like him. And, should he be reading this: Though I've belted you and flayed you...By the living God that made you...You're a better man than I am, Mr. Singh.
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Pat, you must remember that Singh himself offered a ghost-shooter service. A few Octobers ago I was letting the ATA's G5 stretch it's legs a bit on a quick visit to Munich and I forgot completely that I had pre-squadded for Mountain Days at Hog Heaven. I asked Singh to bail me out and thought all would be OK until saw a post on TS titled

    flying-pig.jpg

    and which concluded that the scores credited to me there were impossible and suggested I had hacked into the Shooter Information Center and would soon probably be Veteran Team Captain though no one had ever seen me break a single target very well.

    Singh was able to quiet the whole thing down with a post which, as I remember, went about like this:

    "The attendees at Mountain Days were both surprised and pleased to find that Neil Winston was a slim, attractive Hindu lady in a sari with a far more pleasant personality than they had come to expect based on her posts on TS.com."

    As you can see, his representation was worth every penny.

    Neil
     
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