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What Gunsmiths Hate to See...

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ColtM1911A1, Jun 28, 2011.

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  1. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    1) WD-40 used as a gun lubricant...
    2) Spray cans of gun oil on firearm internals...
    3) Lubricating trigger groups without disassemble...
    4) Worthless cold bluing applications...
    5) Finished wood stocks without sealed wood...
    6) The use of non-standard parts during repair...
    7) Over springing semi-auto pistols and any firearm firing pin spring...
    8) Home shop barrel porting (rifle, pistol, or shotgun)...
    9) the improper use of metal files anywhere on the firearm...

    And finally:

    10) The home garage trigger job (on any firearm, but especially handguns)...

    This is just a quick list of things I find irritating and sometimes dangerous. Many of them requires me to perform a repair. Gunsmith works takes time and especially experience. As in all aspects of a craft, a man needs to know his limitations. I turn down many repairs if I feel I don't have the time, experience, or the equipment to do the job properly and return a safe and workable gun to the customer. Many times I have returned the firearm to the manufacturers gunsmiths to perform the work....

    Just a word here: gun oil is a dirt magnet. Remember that anytime you apply it to a surface. And dirt is abrasive, wearing metal to below safety specs as it grinds away the surface hardening which might only be a few microns deep (a micron is one millionth of a meter). New, modern oils do not need to be seen to be effective; apply, wipe off, and know they have filled in the surface areas to prevent rust and smooth the friction...

    Need to get back to work. Just babbling over a cup of coffee during a needed time out reworking a 1911 home trigger job (both sear and disconnect filed incorrectly and leaving the owner with a dangerous and way too light trigger)....good luck
  2. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 TS Member

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    Are you drinking caffeinated coffee?
  3. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    When you get a chance, please elaborate on this - <blockquote><I>3) Lubricating trigger groups without disassemble... </I></blockquote>
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    <i>...gun oil is a dirt magnet...</i>

    Are you suggesting that we should not lubricate our guns and we should operate them in a dry condition?
  5. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    Toolmaker 251 - no comment required. It'sFolgers regular...

    Rastoff - from reading this and another forum I think you shoot a Ljutic. In your case, removing a single pin can remove the complete trigger assembly where you can then further take it down, clean each part, lubricate and remove all excess oils, then reassemble and have the best of both worlds; rust protection and a smooth operation without attracting excess and unwanted dirt.

    What I mean about lubrication without disassembly:
    This would be if you took a spray nozzle (or tip of a bottle) and applied the lubricant by and through any opening to the group itself. Fore and aft of the trigger, through the firing pin hole, anywhere that would get oil into the trigger group without taking it apart. Spray and pray, so to speak. In that case, it might be better to leave it be or take it to a smith for a yearly cleaning....

    Timb99 - no, but I'm suggesting that it is done correctly. An assembly is not totally dry unless it was taken down and soaked or hand cleaned. Some folks use gun scrubber products to remove excess contamination without disassembly and then try to lubricate again without using excess oils. That's certainly better than the spray and pray approach, but not as effective as the better way...
  6. Traders

    Traders Member

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    Colt1911A1,

    I have always wondered about the use of WD40 on guns. You warn against its use and so has every shooter I have ever asked about this issue. Yet, it is probably one of the most common cleaner/lubricants used on big and small machinery in the US.

    I know that over time it will turn waxy/gummy, but so will most other lubricants. What's the difference?
  7. Traders

    Traders Member

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    Colt1911A1,

    I have always wondered about the use of WD40 on guns. You warn against its use and so has every shooter I have ever asked about this issue. Yet, it is probably one of the most common cleaner/lubricants used on big and small machinery in the US.

    I know that over time it will turn waxy/gummy, but so will most other lubricants. What's the difference?
  8. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    Traders - WD- 40 is a water despersant, designed for that purpose and does that function quite well. The waxy buildup you describe is just the carrier for the chemical itself. In a nutshell, WD-40 is a masterpiece of American marketing. Remember the old advertisements? Don't see them much anymore because the 'word-of-mouth' arena has turned this product into a gangbuster, even if it's used for another purpose than designed. Some people even promote this product for it's aroma, not unlike Hoppes #9, and a few others. Gotta love it!

    Instead of WD-40, use a product like CLP or similar - FP-10, etc.....good luck
  9. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    Back in 1982 I bought a new 1100 from wal mart.. $297.00.. It was my only repeating shotgun until I bought a citori in 1990.. It has over 7000 shots throught it,and has never had anything other than wd-40 used on it.. That's all I had.. Didnt know you were not supposed to use it.. It still shoots perfect today.. I take it dove hunting on opening day each year..
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Active Member

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    WD-40 as a deodorant... hhmmmmmm!

    MK
  11. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    Blkcloud - you, Sir, have not told the entire story. I'm certain you clean your firearms far more often and thoroughly than many others. Using what you had and doing it correctly without excess is a fine trait. I believe that is what you did - either taught to you or you take pride in your firearms. I would bet the latter...

    The 1100is a good dove gun, especially in the sub gauges, either the .410 or 28 gauge, but with proper loads, it will do fine in any gauge....thanks blkcloud for your comments
  12. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Active Member

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    give me a break
  13. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    Thanks for the elaboration. I never thought of spraying any type of product through the firing pin hole. That would be the height of laziness.

    Yes, I do shoot a Ljutic. Yes, one of the great features of that gun is a drop out trigger group. Yes, I do take it out to perform any cleaning. I never just soak a trigger group in any kind of lubricant. I think sears should be dry. Pivot points should be oiled. Moving surfaces get grease. No, I don't take my trigger apart to lubricate it. Should I?

    Even with that, I have many guns. I prefer guns with removable trigger groups, they are easier to maintain. However, I will take the stock off to get to the triggers.

    WD-40 is a great product. It is NOT a lubricant. It will not gum up though many seem to think so. I've seen many tests that say it won't and not one that shows that it will. However, if it is the only product you are using on your gun, it's not enough.

    Some gun designs are simple enough to out last even the laziest of owners. I know of one 870 that hadn't been cleaned since the 70s. It finally failed a few months ago; broke the firing pin. Why? There was so much gunk built up in the firing pin channel in the bolt, the pin couldn't move. So, you might get lucky, but if that gun had been maintained even a little, it would still be working fine.
  14. BROWNST100

    BROWNST100 Member

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    WD40 does turn a waxy white and I have taken many of bolts, from bolt action guns, apart to clean out the gunk from it. The first night of the first day of rifle season, in freezing cold weather, will show who loads up the bolt of their gun with WD40 and never really cleans it out.

    It works within reason.

    Vern
  15. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Member

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    The man is giving good sound advice, with years of EVERY DAY experience to back it up.
  16. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    Rastoff - you don't have to take the Ljutic trigger group down any further to do a good job, just do it on a regular basis. And, be sure you push out the group pin instead of hammering it out as I have seen some do n their Ljutics. I'm certain you know how to do this since you seem to know your way around the Ljutic already.

    And I didn't mean to say to soak the parts in oil; I soak or use a sonic unit to deep clean some groups that are a pain to completely disassemble in solvent, solvent designed for just that purpose.

    Greasing pivot points is not only good practice, it's mandatory for some areas. Simple oil viscosity is inadequate to handle the tight opening and closingof certain hinges on many O/U and SBT guns. If measured properly, you would be surprised at the amount of inch/ pounds generated by these tight hinged firearms. It doesn't feel like much, but regardless, those areas need high viscosity grease, not oil. Oil will work, but it will also cause sooner wear points and turn that nice, tight gun into a sloppy one in less years than it should. And then come the main hinge pin replacement and a four figure check written out to the manufacturer years before it would have been necessary, if at all.

    Vern - excellent point, however, some never hunt in the sub- zero conditions you or I do every year. Talk about stiff actions and frozen gunk in the firing pin channel and not even a 'click' when the trigger is pulled. BTW, sun-zero temperatures is the one time I would recommend running the trigger group dry or lubing with a dry graphite. This will negate the frozen firing pin channels and/or springs.

    Cubancigar2000 - I usually smoke Partagus D 4's if you have any extras lying about. And you may take a break and have one of those beauties. I certainly like your name. I think I'll have a Cuban tonight. Thanks for lighting the lamp...

    N. J. Bob - appreciate the kind words, if they were meant for me and not one of the other responders. Anyhow, thanks for reading the post...
  17. JerryP

    JerryP TS Member

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    WD-40 will most definately gum up the works if applied liberally and allowed to dry. I once had to pound open a Hi-Standard 22 with a block of wood in the Spring after applying WD-40 in the Fall. But it is a great rust preventitive and cleaner. Just wipe it down with a rag, it is a good product but not a lube.

    ...gun oil is a dirt magnet... Don't play with your guns in the sand box.
  18. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Colt1911A - On the rare and unusual instances I give a trigger group the canned Gun Scrubber treatment, after drying I give it a very light spray with Rem Oil. What do you suggest I use for minor lubing and rust preventative if not Rem Oil?
  19. ColtM1911A1

    ColtM1911A1 Member

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    Good story, JerryP, and another reason to use the correct products when working/solving a problem. Again, WD-40 says it all in it's name:

    Water Dispersant -40. The 40 might mean it was the 40th mixture that finally proved to be the one they were looking for. Or, most likely, it means something totally meaningless and just sounded good to the marketing department - a nice sounding technical term that the buying public might be drawn toward. And, boy, did it work and still works. But the word is getting out there and that's a good thing....good luck
  20. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    My gunsmith doesn't hate these things at all. As a matter of fact he refers to them as "job security."

    Mark.
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