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What does this mean for Sparta visitors

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by pyrdek, May 5, 2010.

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  1. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Illinois Senator Wants to Imprison Gun Owners

    http://www.infowars.com/illinois-senator-wants-to-imprison-gun-owners/

    Posted By admin On May 5, 2010 @ 12:34 pm In Constitution
    Illinois gun
    May 5, 2010

    The Illinois General Assembly has passed HB 5832 a Bill that
    makes carrying a firearm in Illinois without a valid FOID card a
    mandatory 1-3 years in prison.

    Under current law, carrying a weapon without a valid FOID card
    allowed for probation but once enacted the new law removes any
    and all chances of probation even for a first time offense. The
    Bill has yet to be signed by the Governor but it appears to be a
    done deal unless a grassroots effort is made to stop it.

    The new law was sponsored in the Illinois Senate by Kirk Dillard,
    who was recently endorsed by the ISRA for Governor on the
    republican ticket.

    HB5832 sounds like a strong tool to fight crime until you
    actually read the "Aggravated Unlawful Use of a Weapon" Law in
    Illinois. Under section 24-1.6 the mere carrying of a firearm is
    considered an Aggravated offense. This includes carries on or
    about ones person or in any vehicle.

    It is a victimless, damage-less, non-violent crime that will put
    a lot of Illinois gun owners in prison and may jeopardize over
    the road truckers and neighboring state friends for transporting
    their gun in violation of Illinois law, which in most states is
    only a ticketing offense.

    Illinois is financially broke, Governor Quinn has already
    suggested that upwards of 10,000 prisoners be released from
    Illinois prisons.

    The new law will add to the Illinois prison population thus
    incurring additional expense that the people of Illinois can not
    afford.

    These types of laws ruin lives, yet the Daley machine is
    applauding the change.

    The State has a history of dragging its feet on FOID card
    renewals. With the new law you better NOT be caught with a
    firearm and an expired FOID card or it's a mandatory 1-3 years in
    an Illinois prison Chicago has always had a crime problem but after
    the passage of the FOID card in 1967 the Chicago homicide and crime
    rate steadily increased with a slight respite in 2004 when only 448
    murders were committed, the lowest since 1965.

    Currently the City of Chicago is being sued by residents wanting
    their second amendment right to be recognized. The case McDonald
    v. Chicago is before the Supreme Court with a decision expected
    to come later this summer.

    Thanks to the new law if the Court does rule in favor of the
    people, gun ownership in Illinois will be with the expressed
    permission of the State.

    Sadly I can't find any evidence that the Illinois NRA affiliate
    ISRA tried to stop this bill. The bill wasn't even listed on
    their legislative page.

    I hope this isn't another compromise stunt from the NRA/ISRA.
     
  2. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a bunch of made up bull to me.
     
  3. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but it DOES appear to be a valid Bill. The following line is a direct copy (URL provided) of a press release dated April 28 from the Mayor's Office of the city of Chicago.

    "The Mayor said that HB 5832, the City’s proposal to strengthen the penalties for unlawful use of a weapon has passed the House and will be taken up by the Senate soon." Click Here<a/>

    Here is what the Senator who introduced the Bill, Sen. Dillard's website has to say. "House Bill 5832 requires mandatory imprisonment for one to three years for an individual who is 18 years or older, who does not have a valid FOID card, and who possessed a loaded and uncased firearm. The penalties would also apply to those who are caught in possession of an unloaded, uncased firearm with ammunition accessible if they do not have a valid FOID card."
    <a href="http://www.dillard.senategop.org/index.php/latest-news-mainmenu-26/309-dillard-bill-takes-aim-at-unlawful-use-of-a-firearm">Click Here


    Another confirmation comes from Illinois Concealed carry.
    Click Here

    and from Senator Dahl's (Illinois State Senator) website

    "Passing the General Assembly this week, however, was a bill that takes aim at unlawful uses of a firearm. The goal of House Bill 5832 is to target the rampant gun violence that is plaguing the City of Chicago, by increasing penalties for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon." Click Here
     
  4. trapshooteraa27aa

    trapshooteraa27aa Well-Known Member

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    More BS. You dont have a big enough leader to go fishing with this one.
    Chris
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    The way I read the language, this pertains only to increasing the penalty for criminals using a loaded gun in the act of an UNLAWFUL use of a weapon.

    Trapshooting is not an UNLAWFUL use of a weapon in the State of Illinois. Much ado about nothing for the sportsman.
     
  6. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    Barry, the way I read it, just carrying a weapon is unlawful use by definition, hence the concern. I don't have a dog in this fight since I live in Oregon where we're still relatively free, but crap like this does have a way of spreading. This law is BS, but I don't believe pyrdek's post is.
     
  7. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Here is a direct quote from yet another Illinois legislator.

    "Springfield, Illinois —State Senator Tony Munoz (D-Chicago) is sponsoring legislation that will increase the criminal charges for the offense of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon.

    "Over the last two weeks the Chicago area has experienced a dramatic increase in the number shootings," said Senator Munoz. "This law would increase the penalties for anyone handling a loaded weapon in public. This is just one of many measures in the Senate this session that will help to make our communities safer."

    House Bill 5832 requires a mandatory sentence of one to three years in prison for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, where the defendant is at least 18 years old and has no Firearm Owner’s Identification Information (FOID) Card. In addition, these penalties would apply for anyone possessing a firearm that is uncased, loaded and immediately accessible to the defendant while they are on public property."

    Tha language plainly states "these penalties would apply for anyone possessing a firearm that is uncased, loaded and immediately accessible to the defendant while they are on public property."

    Now if that does not include Sparta, then what IS public property? In all of the information I have found on this, there is NOT ONE MENTION of any exception for the Sparta complex or visitors from out of state. There is also NO MENTION of any other action, be it legal or illegal, having to take place before this bill, if it becomes law, will cause a prison term.

    Barry and Trapshooteraa27aa, remember that De Nile is a river in Egypt. Denial, even that based on cognitive dissonance (an unwillingness to accept an uncomfortable fact), does not change that fact. Denial can however come back to bite you in the butt!

    Read it for yourself direct from this Senator's website. The information is buried well down near the bottom of his web page.

    Click Here

    Here is a bit more detailed info buried even deeper in a web page linked to from the above listed URL.

    House Bill 5832 requires a mandatory sentence of one to three years in prison for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, where the defendant is at least 18 years old and has no Firearm Owner’s Identification Information (FOID) Card. > In addition, these penalties would apply for anyone possessing a firearm that is uncased, loaded and immediately accessible to the defendant while they are on public property.. (emphasis mine)

    Under current law, the fact that the defendant did not have a valid FOID Card, or that the firearm was uncased, loaded and immediately accessible to the defendant – is sufficient to increase the offense to aggravated unlawful use of a weapon (from unlawful use of a weapon), but no enhanced penalties are provided for where both factors are present. The current penalty for either or both of these factors under aggravated unlawful use of a weapon is a Class four felony, or one to three years in prison and a $25,000 fine, but without the mandatory sentence of imprisonment. Click Here
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Makes me feel that it is just more negative press for Sparta. Every state has legislators proposing anti gun legislation everyday. Because its IL. and the ATA holds the Grand there, so lets make a mountain out of a molehill.

    Can't you guys find a better way to start trouble in the association than this????? Let me see in a little while we should get the "I told you so crowd" that will come in and tell us how they warned everyone years ago about this.

    You guys get really boring after a fashion can't you find something a little more creative to try to stir the blood. BORING.

    Barry don't even concern yourself with this crap it is feeble at best.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    If you would read the Illinois Legislation Tracker, you would find that this bill hass already passed both the Illinois House AND Senate and it currently only the Governor's signature away from becoming Illinois law. Click Here

    With a Governor that is not known to be friendly to gun owners what expectations do YOU have of this thing not being signed.

    Yes, I agree it makes ILLINOIS look bad. Sparta is a part of Illinois. How do you figure that "to start trouble in the association" is a reflection on the ATA? They did not pass the law, they did not sign the law, they will not be the one enforcing the law. So exactly how does making known to those that might be affected, and possibly result in their going to prison, make the ASSOCIATION look bad?
     
  10. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The enactment of such Legislation would be more detremential to Illinois than the immigration bill that we passed in the State of Arizona is going to be to our state ... This cannot work out well, but thats no surprise ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


    Barry,
    Just tell anyone who asks that you know Bob Lawless and he knows for a fact that its all a bunch of BS ... See if that helps, if not PLEASE let us know ...
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    "What does this mean for Sparta visitors?"

    It means nothing for Sparta visitors, that's what.

    Not supporting the law, but let's not start all the Sparta bashing again based on misunderstanding of these issues. This bill increases penalties for actions that were already criminal under the old law. If you weren't breaking the old law, you aren't breaking the new law. It simply amends a section of the law (24-1.6) that is not applicable to most of us trapshooters, unless we travel in our vehicles in Illinois with uncased guns, loaded guns etc. It is not applicable to possession of firearms at a shooting range etc.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    pyrdek

    "If you would read the Illinois Legislation Tracker, you would find that this bill hass already passed both the Illinois House AND Senate and it currently only the Governor's signature away from becoming Illinois law."

    You can post links to that all you wish the part that I can't get past is this,

    "State Senator Tony Munoz (D-Chicago) is sponsoring legislation that will increase the criminal charges for the offense of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon."

    How is that statement going to effect Sparta visitors or maybe you think that everyone that goes to Sparta has committed "aggravated unlawful use of a weapon." If the Visitors to Sparta have not committed such a crime it won't affect them in any way.

    So does reading the "Illinois Legislation Tracker" change the fact that before you are effected you must be guilty of the offense. Which probably 99% of the visitors to Sparta are not. OR maybe you just have trouble with reading comprehension.

    Well Bill you proved that one of my predictions was correct just by making an appearance here. Did you say "I told you so"????

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. Westie

    Westie Member

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    I am not a lawyer or an expert on this subject, but I do live in Illinois. I think I recently heard that the NRA was "neutral" on this law. The NRA is not very sypathetic for individuals that commit crimes with loaded firearms.
     
  14. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    No dog in the fight, but do you think it would be prudent for the B.O.D. of the A.T.A. to address their concerns to the Illinois politicians and get something in writing from them stating that it would have no bearing on the shooters attending the Grand. JMHO Bulge.
     
  15. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Guys:

    The problem is you are reading the text of the "Bill" in isolation, without understanding the Illinois statutes. You can't do that. This bill only added one paragraph to the statutes at section 24-1.6, and all it does is increase the penalties for already criminal activities.

    Again, it very clearly does not affect the ATA since it only changes section 24-1.6 of the statutes and absolutely nothing else. Section 24-2 contains the exceptions to 24-1.6 and remains unchanged. It says 24-1.6 does not apply to patrons at shooting ranges. That specifically addresses pyrdek's concerns above about shooting at Sparta.
     
  16. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    C'mon people....

    The only thing that'll change for the ATA, GA and Sparta is the date on the calendar.

    That type of legislation will go through numerous revisions before dying in some sort of committee.

    Curt
     
  17. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    Illinois does have a peaceable interstate transport statute. (locked in a case, ammo seperate, not within drivers reach) When I traveled through Illinois often I carried a copy of that statute as most officers do not seem to know about it. I had a friend from Indiana who was arrested, his Chevy blaser impounded and his match rife confiscated by an officer who saw the gun case during a speeding ticket stop. The lawyer got it all fixed up, but the cost and troubles could have been prevented if the officer was to call a supervisor to check. When you are in a foreign land, you have to know your rights. Good Luck
     
  18. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Can someone show me the clause in the bill that exempts shooters in matches such as the ATA and the NRA, etc? In order to have the bill read correctly and without armchair lawyers guessing, the escape clause for the shooters in matches should be specifically defined in the bill.
     
  19. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    There doesn't have to be a clause in THIS bill, because FOID only applies to IL residents and non-resident shooters participating in a recognized competition are already exempted from FOID... for complete read access the IL FOID statutes at 430 ILCS 65/2

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  20. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Sounds like the police are the ones that should know the laws, but don't.
     
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