1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

What do you think would happen?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Garry, Feb 19, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Garry

    Garry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    533
    What do you think would happen if everything there was to win (money, trophies and trinkets, etc.) were discontinued and then require the club to use at least 80 percent of the total money to reduce the entry fee for each contestant. You would still have winners but instead of money, trophies and trinkets, they would receive a ribbon with the appropriate wording?

    A. Nothing, ATA membership and targets thrown would remain the same.
    B. ATA membership and targets thrown would decrease.
    C. ATA membership and targets thrown would increase.
    D. Other - please specify.
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    17,155
    Location:
    IL(The gun friendly Southern Part)
    You would lose a large group of shooters. It would be the fatal last blow.
     
  3. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    219
    Let me answer your question with a question. What do you think would happen to your State Shoot attendance wise if an announcement were printed in the State Program that only ribbons would be awarded and no options would be available but after you travel the distance, rent a room and buy shells, the targets would be $5.00 per hundred cheaper?
     
  4. Garry

    Garry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    533
    Neil, for the 80 percent of the shooters who currently win nothing at an ATA shoot, anything we can do to significantly lower the cost for them to participate would be a welcomed blessing I would think. But I could be wrong. This was just an idea on a way to lower the cost. I welcome other ideas on how to reduce the cost of ATA shooting as I believe cost is a major constraint to growing the ATA.
     
  5. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    As long as you focus solely on money (costs, prizes, options, etc.) ... you'll NEVER solve the problem on growing the ATA membership and growing registered targets thrown...

    Jay
     
  6. t7731

    t7731 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Westminster, MD
    Without a doubt - C
     
  7. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,126
    Have Neil do a graph.
     
  8. The Stive

    The Stive Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    635
    I do not shoot for trophies or money. I shoot to beat my average and for fun.
    If I win an event or my class that is frosting on the cake. I would be happy
    with a ribbon or any other form of recognition. My name posted on the board is
    good enough. John
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,755
    Garry: So, you think we should change the format of the ATA so everyone gets a ribbon, Kind of like T-ball. We don't want anyone to feel bad, so everyone gets a winners ribbon? You best go back to Bowling....
     
  10. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,732
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Leave the money games alone but get rid of the cheesy trinkets; although from what I see at shoots, there are probably a number of folks who would love to have a day-glo velvet picture of Elvis in a thornbush frame.
     
  11. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,477
    The only thing that will really help is lower fuel prices by $2.00, lower shot prices by $20.00.

    If we wanted to shoot for nothing why shoot ATA?
     
  12. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    219
    I hope Garry and others are not confusing me (NEAL) with the NEIL Winston that posts on here.
     
  13. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    578
    {Neal} I don't, Brad
     
  14. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    219
    Garry, we all have different amounts of disposable income to spend on trapshooting or fishing or whatever. Records show that even during the terrible depression in the late 20's and 30's, there were trap shoots. They just were not attended by as many people because of their shortage of money. I am sure there were people who could have shot during this time but due to the uncertainty of the times, they choose to hang on to their money or to spend it on something else. I can easily see where today it is not too far removed from then in that a lot of potential shooters are either short of disposable funds are they are too uncertain of their jobs and/or income and they are choosing to hang on to this extra cash until a later time.

    We will always see ups and downs in attendance due to economic times and always have but taking the chance to win money or a nice trophy out of the shoots would even deter the person that actually has the money to spend to attend. You would then not only loose the person who can’t afford it but many of those who can.
     
  15. Garry

    Garry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    533
    Spitter, I said I believe cost is a major constraint to growing the ATA. This does not mean that cost is the only constraint.

    Shotgun410ga, I said the winners would get ribbons. I did not say everyone would get a ribbon.

    No Mr. Crausbay, I am not confusing you with Mr. Winston.
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    According to ATA reports, we don't have a problem recruiting new shooters, we have a terrible problem keeping them around long enough for them to hook themselves on the sport??

    Perception others have of our game is mighty important also!! A mistake in judgment or changes can lead to another, another and on and on till we get to this point today. Our sport needs an enema as great as it is!

    Hap
     
  17. Garry

    Garry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    533
    To Mr. Crausbay and others,

    There have been several threads on Trapshooter.com by people who love the sport but are concerned about the survivability of the ATA as we once knew it.

    I can only speak for myself, but I ask questions and put forth ideas because I don't have that warm comfy feeling that the ATA management team has developed a detailed action plan for growing the ATA membership and targets thrown. A plan that clearly assigns accountability for each action item in the plan. A plan that identifies who is going to do what by when to achieve the goals established for each action item in the plan. The overall goal of such plan would be to increase the ATA membership by X percent and increase the ATA targets thrown by Y percent by the end of each target year.

    Ideally, this plan would be reviewed by the ATA management team at least once a quarter. Each person(s)assigned to an action item would report their progress or lack of progress towards achieving the goal. Resources may need to be reallocated in order to get at risk goals back on track.

    Ideally, this How to Increase ATA membership and targets thrown plan and the progress reports would be transparent and put on the ATA website.

    Ideally, the rank and file ATA members would have input into the development of the How to Increase ATA membership and targets thrown action plan.

    I have asked the ATA management for a copy of their detailed action plan to increase ATA membership and targets thrown but I have not received anything.

    Neal, history has proven your comment: We will always see ups and downs in attendance due to economic times" to be true but that doesn't mean the ATA should not have a detailed action plan being actively worked to minimize the impact. There are business that grow during an economic downturn.

    The way I see it, there are a couple of choices. We can let the trad-winds determine the destiny of the ATA or we can become pro-active, set our own course and then develop a detailed plan with accountability that will keep us on course.
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Garry, do you recall an ED being hired by ATA and in turn, that man had a friend with excellent skills in determining yearly financial reports? He was fired before he got to the dance at Sparta? Too much boat rockin to suit the canoe riders.

    Hap
     
  19. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,673
    We have had success with lowering the target price on our shoots. We don't do it for every shoot, but when we do, it seems to draw more shooters. It saves them about $10 an event. Not a lot, but it when you add up all the expenses of a shoot, it keeps the cost just low enough to be appealing.
     
  20. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    14,338
    Garry,

    Why don't you talk your local club into throwing such a shoot, then report back the results. As individual members of the ATA, it is up to US to find ways to fix this "problem" and not wait for the EC to do it.

    Whatever program is a popular crowd pleaser and draws more people, will catch on from club to club and then be adopted at the large shoots.

    The erosion of our sport did not happen over night, but over time. We must regrow it the same way.

    Mr. Kiner's recent survey showed the majority of people think it is economics for the decline, and not the "big dogs" or the need to make more people winners.

    Something I have wondered about, is perhaps the entry money for the purses is too cheap. Perhaps we should increase an entry fee from 10 dollars to 50 dollars. Perhaps we can have different levels of entry purses for all events and then limit the shooters to one entry per event.

    In other words, you set up a 10.00 entry fee, a 25 dollar and 50 dollar entry fee for an event. You can enter one entry fee level, but not all. So the people who enter the 10.00 purse will shoot against others in the 10.00 entry purse and divide up the money based on winners of class or handicap.

    A "big dog" ( I hate that term), will most likely enter a 50 dollar event and the class B,C, D shooters will not, unless they want to. This way, the lessor class or yardage shooters will compete against other similar shooters, without the fear the big dogs will clean up on everything. Again, the choice of the level purse entered, will be up to the shooter.

    Look at all the options and purses for each event at each shoot. Cut it down to 2, 3 maybe 4 at most, but set up different purses and entry money for each. Run a cash trophy, Lewis and one other, or just the first two for singles and doubles. For handicap, trophy, Lewis and special.event. Eliminate all the junior, lady and vet classes. If people want recognition for these classes, issue a letter of participation of the event listing the date and score, and place in the event.

    Perhaps, too complicated, but I am going to suggest it at my club, maybe some of you big thinker types can figure out some better along the same lines.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.