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What do you consider "good hard shot?"

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Avaldes, Sep 16, 2012.

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  1. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I see references all the time to using "good hard magnum shot." I am curious about what brands others consider to be good ones? I think this might vary by region, but I would like to hear it.
     
  2. Rufus80

    Rufus80 TS Member

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    What do you consider

    Lawrence
     
  3. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Terre Haute Indiana
    What do you consider

    Anything less than $35 a bag!

    Eagle brand is good shot.

    Jim Skeel
     
  4. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    Remington when you could get it...The only brand that actually printed on the bag...6% antimony...
     
  5. handlepuller

    handlepuller Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    RemIngton is the best.
     
  6. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    What do you consider

    I've been reloading for about 25 years. I've never seen anything but Lawrence, West Coast and Eagle...In "magnum" grade all 3 are as hard or harder than anything used in factory premium loads.
     
  7. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    What do you consider

    West Coast, although it seems like lately the shot sizes are very inconsistent and sometimes mislabeled.
     
  8. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    Remington 6% antimony, West Coast 5.5% eagle a lot less. YMMV Scott
     
  9. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    6% printed right on the bag. Remington wouldn't lie about that, right? Their Nitro loads are "New, Softer recoil", says so right on the box.
     
  10. ImpalaBob

    ImpalaBob Member

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    What do you consider

    I found this on-line @ shotgun world:
    #7.5 shot / Hardness

    Lawrence Magnum =100
    Eagle Magnum =97
    Federal Premium Flyer= 95
    B&P F2 Mach = 92
    Remington Nitro 27's =91
    Federal Gold Medal Paper =91
    West Coast Magnum = 91
    Lawrence Magnum Copper =87
    Winchester SuperSport =84
    Federal Premium Field Copper =77
    Fiocchi Nickel Little Rhino =74
    Remington Nitro Express =73
    Winchester Black Diamond Nickel =70
    Gamebore White Gold Nickel =68
    Remington Game Load 16ga =68
    Fiocchi (Italy) HV Field =68
     
  11. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    I do not believe that is true, reason being, when you use an 1 1/8 oz charge bar, STS and West Coast magnum the drops are short 10 to 15 grains, when you use Eagle the drops are right on to heavy. The only way you can be heavy is low antimony shot. Shot with a higher antimony % is lighter as antimony is lighter than lead. Another thing that leads me to believe this is patterning, using West Coast against Eagle, there are consideralbly more fliers in the same load in Eagle than West coast, less shot in the pattern. Your findings may vary, this is just my limited experiance. Scott
     
  12. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    What do you consider

    I believe Scott Johnson nailed it. I have found West Coast to be the hardest, or highest antimony of what is available now. To get the right weight, I dropped my 8 bushing and put in the 7-1/2 shot bushing using 8's...dropped almost dead on with West Coast shot.

    That said, and I only use West Coast, I believe from the 16 to probably at least half way back reclaimed shot would break targets if the barrel is properly applied. My club has some new reclaimed coming out of our field, and I am tempted to try some. It is cleaned, polished and graphited and priced right.
     
  13. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    West Coast and Lawrence are the same co. Taricorp, and if memory serves me right both are dropped from the same tower in Carson City NV.....
     
  14. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    Any type that breaks the target. I think I've shot every brand and type (new, reclaimed, and homemade) and can't find a lick of difference between them. They all break targets if I do what I'm supposed to do. However new premium shells (AA, STS, Feds, etc) are all better than reloads. Regardless of what anyone says. Reloads can be good, I've reloaded many 100,000's, but still not as good as new premium shells. That does not hold true for the cheapies or throw away Wally World shells.
     
  15. 4th. down

    4th. down Active Member

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    What do you consider

    .410 - I thought the same thing until last week. We did a test with a Lt. Mod. @ 35 yds., 30" circle.

    Factory AA SHCP and STS HCP, 1 1/8 oz. # 7 1/2s. vs. first fire reload, Fed. hull, Rio. primer, 22 grs. Green Dot and DRV wad. with Lawrence Mag. # 7 1/2.

    We only shot 3 patterns of ea. load but it was enough - taking ea. load average there was less than a 10 pellet difference between all of the loads. So, insignificant from my perspective, especially with the factories going for $85.45 flat, net, compared to the $50/flat reloads. However, as usual, your mileage may vary.
     
  16. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    What do you consider

    Well, there's no better way to get the right answer for yourself than to load some shells and compare results. If you find a winner , nobody's to argue that you shouldn't use it, even if the pellets resemble square marshmallows. The proof is in the pudding they say.

    Or you can go by what the label says. 5%? 6% what does that mean? How hard IS 5% antimony shot? How much hareder is 6% antimony shot? #7.5 has meaning everybody understands... 0.095" diameter. Do you automatically believe that to be true if the bag says so? You really want to know? Measure it.

    That's what I did. I created the hardness table posted above by measuring the resistance to deformation of 20-pellet samples of identical diameter. Each pellet was placed on an anvil and a 16 ounce weight was dropped a distance of 12" onto the pellet. The flattened pellet was measured and the new diameter recorded. The less the pellet flattened, the more resistant it was to deformation, the harder the pellet. Lawrence Magnum always wins. So Lawrence Magnum was assigned a value of 100 and all the others rank ordered accordingly.
    Believe it or don't.


    PICT0018.jpg
     
  17. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    What do you consider

    Mike, thanks for the explanation of your method. That makes all of the difference in the believability of the data. Personally I do measure my shot with a very nice set of Starrett calipers. I have found that West Coast is not as consistent in size as is Remington, AA or Federal Gold Medal shot. However the difference is about 1-2 thousandths, and I am not sure how much that variability influences the final patterns.

    I have never gone thru the effort to make a flattening rig. Did you rank the disks based on the amount of flattening? Meaning measure before and after? Did you take mean and std deviation? I am just curious.

    The whole reason for my question is that Brownells discontinued the Remington STS shot that I have had on backorder for 6 months!! I had free shipping so I ordered 50 bags of 7.5s. Needless to say I am disappointed.

    Now that leaves the question, what is everyone else using? And how did you determine it is good?
     
  18. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    What do you consider

    I've not made a study of shot size or uniformity, except anecdotally while measuring pellets to flatten. First, I arbitrarily chose #7.5 since it covers my targte and hunting needs. I quickly found out, as anyone will, that the size within a factory shell, much less a bag, will vary. We know #7.5 should measure 0.095", but it can be very difficult to find a preponderance of that size in some shells labeled 7.5.

    So, one anecdote is that I found Kent Diamond Shot to be the largest and most uniform diameter #7.5 shot I've seen. So what? Does that make it "better?"

    Another anecdotal observation is that Eagle tends to run smaller on average than some others. So what? Some people like #8, some like #7.5. Is #7.75 necessarily bad? This could account for "heavy" drops of Eagle even if the antimony content is higher. A shot bar drops by volume and everyone should know that any shot bar will drop a heavier charge of #9 than it will #7.5 of the same brand....more lead, less air space. To compare apples to apples, one should measure brands X & Y to get 100 identically sized pellets, then weigh the samples to determine if, in fact, one brand pellet is lighter than the other. Even then, it's a leap of faith to ascribe the difference to antimony content. You want to know antimony content? Pay for a metals analysis.

    While 0.095" can be hard to find, 0.093" can usually be readily found in a sample labeled #7.5. So I measure about 40 pellets at .093", then measure them again and cull to get 20-25 as identical as I can. I measure the disks after flattening and subtract the 0.093 to get the amount of diameter change. Of course, bigger discs are softer, and the pellet was more easily deformed. What I do is a quantitative version of the old "squeeze'em with pliers" technique. And yes, 20 samples is enough to give me very good data and convince me the differences I see are statistically significant. FWIW, I've updated my chart to show retests and the fact 1) Lawrence is still #1 and 2) West Coast improved with a different lot test.

    #7.5 shot / Relative Hardness

    Lawrence Magnum Target ..........100 ( 4tests in 3 years)

    Eagle Magnum .........................97 (4 tests)

    Federal Premium Flyer..............95

    West Coast Magnum .................94 (2 tests)

    B&P F2 Mach ..........................92


    Remington Nitro 27's.................91


    Federal Gold Medal Paper...........91


    Lawrence Magnum Copper..........87

    Winchester SuperSport ..............84

    Federal Premium Field Copper......77

    Fiocchi Nickel Little Rhino...........74


    Remington Nitro Express.............73


    Winchester Black Diamond Nickel...70


    Gamebore White Gold Nickel........68


    Remington Game Load 16ga.........68


    Fiocchi (Italy) HV Field...............68
     
  19. 4th. down

    4th. down Active Member

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    What do you consider

    Mike, excellent and thanks for posting.

    My above post was done from memory so I got to thinking I better go back and look at the patterns again and they were as follows for a 3 shot average for ea. load:

    AA SHCP 274 pellets

    AA Heavy Target 268

    Reloads 265

    STS Nitro 27 236

    As Mkie says, the proof is in the pudding but then again, each load, choke, gun is a world unto itself.
     
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