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What do we do now - Red Mountain locked the gates.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Hauser, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Insight



    A whole lot of mis-information here. Care to sign your name??


    Jerry Hauser
     
  2. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Is "close to the truth" the same as not true???


    Jerry Hauser
     
  3. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    The proper use of "there" and "their" would make it a much easier read.

    Scott
     
  4. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    A couple of observations on Insights comments


    I have no first hand knowledge regarding the issue with campers however Jennifer was an employee of the tribe not someone that was leasing the grounds. That said if the tribe didn’t not like non-shooters camping on the grounds they could have directed her to cease allowing them to stay or they could have replaced her. Either method would have corrected the problem without closing the club.


    I know the state BOD has been behind every initiative that promotes trapshooting in the state and what ever happened with Game and Fish’s decision regarding the Buckeye complex wasn’t based on trap shooters not wanting to drive across town. The Prescott club, which is 90 miles from Phoenix, was well attended up to the time they decided they did not want to hold registered shoots.


    I’m not sure about the comment about the brutal attack on the Casa Grande club other than a discussion regarding their ability to hold a state shoot. I was against the move as were others but I wasn’t aware of any degrading of the manager or the way he ran his shoots which was always done in the best interest of the shooter. The discussion was based on facility issues and their ability to process 65-70 squads shooting 200 targets/day over 12 traps facing east.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I shot at RM many times, always in February . ATA shoots did have parking problems. I would shoot practice during the week and yes, the lot was full of campers. Rarely would anyone else be shooting. We bought components there and prices were usually better than in town.

    I guess this fat can be chewed over a lot but unfortunately the die is cast.

    Too bad there wasn't more communication while it was going on.

    Phoenix area shooting needs a rich fairy godmother.

    HM
     
  6. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    insight


    Thanks for the response.


    I did not pay any attention to the interface between the tribe and Red Mountain safe in the knowledge that Jennifer is one of the best gun club managers I've ever worked with. To say the least I'm shocked it's closed.


    As far as Casa Grande hosting the state shoot my problem was the facility (small clubhouse, trap line not wheelchair accessible) and they were not going to be able to handle the 65-70 squads with 12 traps that faced east. We have held past state shoots at clubs facing east including the Phoenix and old Tucson club however they had far more traps.


    When the shoot was held at Red Mountain the starting time was 8am and they finished between 4 and 5pm.


    Hold that at Casa Grande and there are going to be many squads of shooters that would have shoot 100 targets looking into the rising sun. I didn't think that was necessary.



    Jerry Hauser
     
  7. littlebear

    littlebear TS Member

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    Insight
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Casa Grande was granted a spot in the rotation for the State Shoot. They decided not to go ahead with it because the needed repairs to the grounds and general timing issues presented a problem.

    Also I really doubt that a "Chief" or any other high ranking Indian offical worked at the range. I also believe that most shooters showed all of the staff the courtesy they deserved.

    This is a shame, and I hope with the Boards help we will have a productive Winter Chain. Casa Grande, Ben Avery, and maybe Prescott will all pick up some extra shoots.
     
  8. bas

    bas Member

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    Insight...what do we do now that Red Mountain has closed? WE keep on shooting...Ben Avery, Casa Grande, Tucson, Garden Canyon,Double Adobe, Lake Havasu City, Mohave, Pleasant Valley, White Mountain.....etc., we STILL have a lot of targets to shoot. For some of us, just a few more miles to travel.
     
  9. NEWDoubleAdobe

    NEWDoubleAdobe TS Member

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    Double Adobe has 103 full hookup camping sites and we do throw registered targets as well as sporting clays go to our web page for more info on our campground and shoot schedule.Or call 520-364-4000 Thanks, Roy
     
  10. CEN

    CEN TS Member

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    I've shot at least some of the Arizona winter Chain since 1968, and probably was a part of and saw chain shooting at its peak with the Spring Grand at the Phoenix Club near Litchfield Park. Although my ability to shoot is fading away, I still bought a Condo in Tempe to be close to Red Mountain. What a blow to hear that the Club will be closed. Hopefully the Arizona Trapshooting Association and existing clubs can recover, and still have a chain shoot that will be attractive to winter visitors. Speed now though is of the essence. A new listing of shoots for the winter needs to come out as soon as possible, and where possible existing clubs need to look at this as an opportunity to enhance and expand their facilities. A shooter missing one winter season may never be back.

    Chet Nelson
     
  11. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Sparta ... yep ... y'all needs to moves ta Illinoise and shoots at Sparta. The great state of Illinoise would never do that to ya.

    Ya thinks maybe it might be some sorts of revenge type thing for the closing of the range?
     
  12. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    insight


    The Casa Grande club was operating when I first stated shooting which was in 1966 and they have recorded numerous 100 and 200 straights in singles as well as handicap and doubles. The last time I was at the club they still displayed wooden plaques with the name and year the shooter recorded their straight.


    Many of these are 40 years old. I know Larry Gravestock has one displayed for his 100 in doubles back in the 70s and Brian Axtman has one for his hundred from the 27 yard line which I beleive completed his grand slam.


    The club hosted the state shoot in 1973 but there were no where near the 65 to 70 squads that were projected when they applied to hold the shoot several years ago. That year it was a 3 day shoot and the singles was won by Jim Thurmond with a 200 straight and the handicap won by Nate Mane.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  13. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I like Casa Grande! got my first 25str there.

    I like(d) Red Mountain Had some real fun shooting there!

    I hope the State will be flexable enough with Ben Avery to help fill the gap that will need to be filled if Red Mtn. doesn't come back!

    Wich brings us to the question?

    How do we go about providing the shooting if we do not have Red Mtn? I did not find how Many traps at Globe/Miami, but with the small clubs having mostly 5 traps, a couple have 4, it looks like it is going to take shoots at 4 of the smaller clubs on the same weekend to make up for one missed date at Red Mtn!

    Do we do telephonic shoots at several small clubs? Do we have a Trophy shoot at one small club yet encourage several other clubs to have shoots that weekend?

    Last winter I only got away from Tucson a couple of times, so you might say. "I am a fine one to speak"! but if we don't have good numbers, because we don't have either Red Mtn or shoots that make up for it, and appeal to our winter visitor shooters, Tucson is going to suffer also!

    SO even though we are trying work things out with the Tribal Council, I think we need to speak about how we over come the lose now! we don't have to set anything in stone! But I think we need a tenitive schedule, of what we can offer without Red Mtn! lets show our winter visitors what we can do for them! No Matter wich way this thing falls out!

    Al

    CEN I didn't take the time to read your post until I typed this!

    Roy, I have shot at DA what a neet place! (tongue in cheek) but can you add another 10 or 12 traps? that would darn near make DA the prime club in Arzona! or get with Rod and Don and Set a telephonic shoot? DA, GC and CG theres 20 traps! but then wich one to pick? there all GOOD! oh to pick one what a...........!

    And while I like the AZ state shoot, all 300 and some shooters! Would a telephonic shoot bring in more? I guess I mean that when it looks like only about 20% of the Tucson shooters go down to PHX, and only about the same Number Phx shooters come up to Tucson, and there still are still a little over 300 shooters for either city, Wouldn't we stand a chance of being at or over 500 to 600 shoters if say BA and TTSC shared the shoot? just a question. That something like Red Mtn brings to my mind.
     
  14. CEN

    CEN TS Member

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    Looks like the Arizona powers that be group are going in the right direction, and will still have an appealing trap program for this winter. Much could be accomplished with a major accelerated move at Ben Avery along the long range plans it layed out a year ago, but time is not on the side of those long range plans...they need to be implemented while shooters still look at he Arizona chain as a great shooting experience. To attract the shooter from around the/country/ world as PHX Trap and Skeet was able to do requires closeness to a major air port and should have close by Hotel/Motel accomodations. Ben Avery has a chance of still capitilizing on that window of opportunity which would also bring back the great attendances to shoots either a week before or a week after that. You are right without either a major shoot before or after the Spring Grand at Tucson...that shoot is going to be hurt as well. So much for singing to the chior, but that is the way I look at it.

    Chet Nelson
     
  15. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    CEN,

    There are a lot of people seeing the same thing you are seeing ... Now, its time to wait and see what happens, pick up the pieces and go from there if the Tribal Council does not reconsider ... The right people are trying to do anything that can be done ... The Delegate and State Association are right on top of this and will keep everyone informed of whats going on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  16. CEN

    CEN TS Member

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    You are right a lot of us are just venting ourselves and saying the same thing..which is in a way good...we have a concensus. One new element though that could be helpful, and that is has anyone ever seen the statutory enabling language for Ben Avery, and how the Arizona Legislative Assembly provides an annual or biennial appropriation for it. Those two items are absolutely key, to know what can or cannot be done on a short term basis at Ben Avery. While still working, I used to know some of the guys over at the Ariozna Legislative Fiscal Office, but no longer have those contacts, but anyone who knows an Arizona Legislator and is an Arizona resident, could ask for that information and get it quite quickly. If the Arizona Game and Fish Department was on it's toes, it would have asked for language allowing any new moneys becoming available to be spent as they come in thus giving the opportunity to do more immediately. The statutes might also alow for some borrowing against future revenues. Most states preclude adding to the state debt, but have interpreteded their constitutions to allow borrowing againts future predictable revenue streams.

    Chet Nelson
     
  17. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Chet,

    The people who are handleing this matter are very competent people and will get or have anything they need to get it done ... The people at Ben Avery have been talked to from what I was told ... Now we have to wait and see what happens next ... This cannot be rushed or become a forced issue and has to be done right ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  18. oneidcharlie

    oneidcharlie Member

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    Insight, All the drivel and hot air that you have been blowing around I almost feel as it is Grammie. I have camped at Red Mtn for 7 winters and know of only one person who was asked to leave because of not shooting. Also at the 2005 state shoot they opened the fence so people could park on the old drsg strip and very few vehicles used that option. Blaming the closure on the winter campers is uncalled for. You also stated that the Chief would work at the club is hogwash. Charlie Hartwig
     
  19. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    If you limit the Arizona State Shoot to residents you would only need 3 traps.

    jim brown
     
  20. Too Bad

    Too Bad TS Member

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    Insite,

    Insite is something you are lacking, why don't you get some facts to support your dribble.

    ASTA and the Arizona delegate are working to resolve this very important issue for shooters in Arizona and around our country. Comments like your do nothing to bring a solution.

    Richard Luckett
     
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