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what are acceptible pressures for target load

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ColBuckShot, Mar 6, 2008.

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  1. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    What is considered acceptible pressures for loads that will be fired thousands of times, for both 16yds and handicap? Is trying to keep fps at 1200 or above advantageous for 16yds, handicap?
     
  2. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I have been loading a clays recipe(started out a load for my wife) 1oz shot at 1145 fps I fell in love with these loads at 16yards soft can shoot them all day
     
  3. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    I am looking for PSI levels to answer my question please.
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Barrels are proof tested at considerably above SAAMI levels. Rule of thumb, keep your loads under 10,000psi. SAAMI levels are higher for a 12b, and so is the pressure of many factory loads. You are not going to hurt any well made gun by firing several hundred thousand shell through it at 10,000 psi.
     
  5. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Max allowable pressure is 11,500 psi. Acceptable is less less than that. Modern barrels are proofed at 50% higher than that. The ballistics specialists I know don't load anything under 8500 PSI (1 1/8 oz.) simply because lower pressures equate to erratic powder burns.

    Morgan
     
  6. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    Thanks again zzt. My second question ,is it advantageous to achive 1200fps or above for 16yds and how about handicap.
     
  7. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    CBS, there is no good answer to your second question. The only accurate one is, it depends on you.

    For years I shot everything at 1150fps. I had no trouble breaking targets from the 27 at that velocity using #8 shot. The notion that you need 1200fps and #7 1/2 shot to break targets is simply daft.

    That being said, there are psychological implications. Now that I have a gun that fits pretty well and doesn't beat the snot out of me, I really like 1200fps loads for handicap. I can readily see the difference in time of flight, and I like it. It is more direct. Bang..break is much more satisfying than bang....break.

    So my advice would be to shoot the softest shell you can if you cannot tell the difference, and to use the fastest shell you can comfortably tolerate if you can.
     
  8. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    Thanks guys, sounds like sound advice on both questions. What had me a little confused was that factory handicap loads are listed at 1300 and 1350fps.
    I would think the PSI would be much higher then 10,000 on those loads.
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Having loaded since 1958, I have come to the conclusion that 12 ga shotshells, if loaded to a minimum pressure of 9000 PSI will give more consistent results and better performance year round.

    I load 32 gram (1 1/8 oz) to 1200, 28 gram (1 oz) to 1250 and 24 gram (7/8 oz) to 1350.

    I only ahoot the 32 gram load at caps. I shoot the 28 gram load at the second shot of Dubs and Sporting, and the 24 gram at Singles, first shot of Dubs, Skeet and Bunker.
     
  10. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Great responses from experiences shooters. Since I am new to the sport, is it best to settle on one speed so you get used to the leads? I have been using 1200 for my one ounce loads which seems to me to be a good trade off for velocity and recoil, and yet it isn't too soft to cycle my son's 1100.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  11. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Load 'em so they suit YOU.
     
  12. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    "Thanks guys, sounds like sound advice on both questions. What had me a little confused was that factory handicap loads are listed at 1300 and 1350fps. I would think the PSI would be much higher then 10,000 on those loads."

    1290 feet/second is the maximum permitted velocity for a 1 1/8 oz. handicap load and 1325 feet/second is max for 1 oz. The component combination is what determines the peak pressure, not the velocity. The correct combination will produce velocity with safe pressure.

    It should also be noted that the peak pressures for 1 oz. loads are lower than those of 1 1/8 oz. loads because the powder charge detonation does not have to accelerate as large a mass so the pressure never builds to as high a value the wad cup and shot begin to move.

    I've never read nor heard any ballistics expert cite any evidence (other than a personal preference) that suggested keeping your reloading pressures below 10,000 psi. It would be counter-productive to throw away 1500 psi of very usable working pressures for no good reason whatsoever.

    Morgan
     
  13. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Cap'n, those Max. speeds only apply for registered ATA. A few clubs also have shot and speed limitations, but not all, and Annies are a whole other animal."

    Yes, I realize that. My answer was in reply to the statement that "factory handicap loads" are listed at 1300 and 1350 fps.

    I have friend who, for reasons of his own, shoots live pigeons instead of clay ones, and his loads have been chrono tested to exceed 1400 fps. I don;t think he has ever had them pressure tested.

    Morgan
     
  14. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    ColBuckShot, You've probably seen Sporting Clays loads at those fast speeds, not trap handicap loads.
     
  15. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    ColBuckShot, My $.02 pretty much agrees with the comments of zzt. Regarding speed, however, please remember that at 1150 fps your shot is leaving the muzzle at approx. 784.5 mph and at 1200 it's leaving the muzzle at 818.5 mph; a difference of only 34 mph. When you think in terms of miles/hour you can see that neither of the choices you're considering will have the remotest problem overtaking a clay target leaving the house at approx. 42 or 43 miles/hour; which is 63 ft/second. I know a considerable number of long yardage shooters that do quite well with 2 3/4 dram loads for their handicaps.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  16. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    You will find the game much more enjoyable if you use the lightest loads that work well for you. For me it's 1 oz of shot at about 1150 fps for 16 yard work and first shot at doubles.

    I'm on the 27 yard line and I'm comfortable with 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 at 1200 fps or up to 1245 fps, depending on what is available.

    The above loads work well for me and are comfortable to shoot, also the pressures are reasonable.

    I know plenty of people that use 1200 fps and 1 1/8 of shot for 16 yards. That's fine for them but I feel that it's unnecessary but ultimately the choice is yours.

    Have fun.

    Jerry
     
  17. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I posted a link above that takes you to a very handy "statistics" page on Shotgun Sports Magazine's website. There you'll see a table for the time of flight of lead shot to given yardages at given velocities as well as one for the retained energies at those distances and speeds. I frankly can't see where the differences between 1,145 FPS and even the highest speeds listed would ever be the determining factor on a lost target.

    You are welcome to print the chart and keep it near your loading bench. Referring to it now and then keeps your feet on the ground.

    Ed
     
  18. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    "I think what some see as less of a lag in the shot breaking the bird with faster loads is because the additional recoil of the faster load kicks them off target more, and, by the time they recover, they see the bird breaking."

    Then what explains the difference that spectators can see...the people not effected by the recoil phenomena ? It's often very easy for those standing back to note a difference between "bang" and "break" when one or two of the people shooting on a medium handicap yardage squad are using 1145 fps (16 yard) shells and the rest are using faster loads.

    Morgan
     
  19. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    the reload I'm using now is a 6800psi 1125fps clays powder recipe
     
  20. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Personally, I'd consider 6800 psi to be low for reliable and consistent ignition with smokeless powder. The bang may sound almost the same and the recoil will feel unchanged but the time over which the ignition event is completed can vary at these pressures enough to have a marked effect on the pattern at 40 yards...sort of like running high-test gas in a low-compression engine.

    Morgan
     
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