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We don't need this kind of publicity!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Barry C. Roach, Jul 21, 2009.

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  1. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    He's lucky he was only charged with second degree manslaughter. Tragic but we can't have fools out there in the woods, with guns. If he had obeyed the cardinal rule of hunting - it wouldn't have happened.
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    During any hunting seasons across our lands, you won't catch me strolling the trails in street clothes! The one's carrying a gun on those same lands are required by law to wear blaze orange! Why not for any person entering those lands during any open hunting season? Parents should be responsible for their children in ALL they allow their children to do, car,gun everything. They make the decisions of responsibility and have to abide by that choice! Hap
     
  3. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with the fact there are people walking around the woods during hunting season and they are not wearing blaze orange. If you are out in the woods during hunting seaon in an area that is being hunted you should have blaze orange on like anyone else.

    As for the hunter the blame does go on him but the blame also goes on the person who taught him to hunt. He forgot the number one rule and that is ID YOUR TARGET. He did not and now two groups have to pay the price. Thought it was a bear and knowing it was a bear are two diff things.
     
  4. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    From the article it appeared to me the land was not "POSTED"... did I miss that?!

    How many of you have seen cows "painted" with the word "COW" just to make sure some hunters don't mistake them for deer?! I've seen them in southern IL, Kentucky and Alabama... numbskulls are more prevalent than we may want to admit!

    regards to all,

    Jay
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    It does also go down to the rule i was taught at a very early age "If you are not 100% sure of your target DON'T SHOOT!!!!" To go walking in the woods during hunting season without blaze orange on is STUPID!!! as well as life threatning.----Matt
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I find a problem with the statement about a 6 year old getting a license. Dko they not have Hunter Safety there, accompanied by age requirements?

    This guy was 15 and should have known better, but the remark about 6 year olds getting a bear license sounded simply stupid.

    Say it ain't so.

    HM
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Hap I am glad you said it that was the first thing that entered my mind when I saw this article earlier today. Blaze orange would definitely make target ID much more positive as in this case there are no blaze orange Bears.

    I also find it interesting that these hikers feel that there should be warning signs on the trails to tell them that that there are hunters in the area.

    "The case highlighted issues about hunting on public land in Washington that were news to some state residents. First, hunting in close proximity to hikers was perfectly legal. Second, there was no requirement for trailhead signs to warn hikers like Almli that there were hunters in the area."

    The first reason sited in the quote it say is news to some hikers what did they think when they decide to go hiking that hunters are supposed to clear out. Maybe they though that when hiking trails were put in that it made hunting illegal.

    I also think this quote is interesting.

    "Working with the Washington Trails Association, a hiker advocacy group, Kohl-Welles introduced a bill to set a minimum age of 16 for solo hunting in the state. The bill was bottled up this year by some lawmakers who wanted the age to be set at 14, but Kohl-Welles said she will push it again next year."

    Not one word about common sense issues like blaze orange clothing for non-hunting people who share the outdoors with hunters.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I think most of us realize that a minimum age law for solo hunters won't guarantee that the woods will be safe anymore than blaze orange will stop bullets. But in the absence of personal responsibility we have laws and handling a weapon requires a maturity level similar to what is required to operate a vehicle. 16 years old sounds like a good place to set the minimum age for solo hunters. Ages 12 - 16 should be eligible for restricted licenses that require they be accompanied by an adult.
     
  9. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    This is a sad tale isn't it? As for the non hunters wearing blaze orange, who is going to train them as to the hunting seasons and the dates they run? I know a lot of people who haven't a clue about the opening days of hunting seasons we all know and look forward too so well. The state has a lot of trails and parks that are used by many more than I care to estimate and for us to presume they have knowledge of hunting on state lands is just a presumption. They don't all know anything about hunting and for their safety I guess we all should email the states where we live and get in touch with the Dept of Natural Resources and suggest a warning sign be posted in the parking areas and dates entered when there will be those of us with firearms about. What do you guys think of that one? Other than something like that being done. The old standby of "Knowing your target" should always be followed. The young man who made that fatal mistake of not knowing his target will forever be haunted by his action. Dan
     
  10. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    A 6 year old may have a hunting lic but he is not the one who will shoot the bear. The 6 year old is just a way to get another tag for a bear for someone else.
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Thats right Dahaub don't expect those that go in harms way to take any steps to insure a wider margin of safety by wearing blaze orange. They shouldn't be expected to learn when it is hunting season and when it isn't.

    We will just dump all the responsibility on the hunting community let them take the hit. After all the hunters should be fairly safe they will have on their blaze orange.

    After all is said and done you could be right the liberals aren't quite capable of learning dates anyway. You have stated your case like a true liberal.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    How tough would it be during the hunting seasons to post at the parking areas, BLAZE ORANGE REQUIRED TO ENTER THIS FOREST! Put these signs up just prior to hunting season. I'm sure the young man is dreadfully sorry he didn't heed the first rule in safety!! He'll live with that spur of the moment decision the rest of his life also. I sincerely feel for all involved in such a needless accident that a piece of cloth may have prevented! Or, a sign reminding all who enter, this is a hunting area and hunting season is in folks! At the very least, USE CAUTION, hunting activity is going on here!

    I hunted deer and elk in Colo. years back and heard this story about bow hunters. One man was shot at close range and killed by another hunter thinking he'd seen an elk move!! Both hunters were wearing camo clothing and hard to see in the forests. Movement got the man killed because the shooter got excited thinking/wishing/hoping it was an elk and the adrenalin flowed. Another safety violation by not identifying his target FIRST!!

    The young man also had a super charged adrenalin flow going too when he "thought" he saw a bear. Such a shame for all concerned!

    Hap
     
  13. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    I was once staying with my wife at a resort in a wooded area over Thanksgiving.

    My wife who like to ride thought it would be fun to rent horses. Neither of us coming from hunting families, it did not occur to us that looking like a moose during hunting season was a bad idea. The country folk at the resort told us that renting horses was a very bad idea and we listened.

    Not sure how to teach non-hunters how to be careful during hunting season.

    It is, however, relatively easy to drill safety into a kid before handing him or her a loaded gun.

    Lou
     
  14. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Outhouse or outlaw or nolaw or whoever you are. To presume that everyone who uses the state parks trails and areas are aware of hunters being there is just plain stupid. For the states to post a sign to wear blaze orange during the current hunting seasons is not out of question or too much to ask. For the thousands who in the fall want to walk in a state park to look at the colors and get some fresh air lets hope they are smart enough to know when they see Elmer Fudd walking around with a shotgun they know there is a huning season. Not everyone is smart enough to figure that out. You know Bob there are republicans who want to see the fall colors also not all of them are on the couch watching football and drinking beer. Dan
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dahaub

    "You know Bob there are republicans who want to see the fall colors also not all of them are on the couch watching football and drinking beer"

    You are correct but then again most aren't proposing one sided legislation now are they.

    "Working with the Washington Trails Association, a hiker advocacy group, Kohl-Welles introduced a bill to set a minimum age of 16 for solo hunting in the state. The bill was bottled up this year by some lawmakers who wanted the age to be set at 14, but Kohl-Welles said she will push it again next year."

    Now I don't know about you but I didn't see anything in that series of statements. Would make me think that anything about protective clothing being worn in the outdoor areas open to hunting during open hunting season. That in turn leads me to believe that all the liberals view all hunters as Elmer Fudd as you do.

    I have no idea how old you are but when I was a youth I can't remember seeing people in the State Parks and Wildlife Areas hiking and sight seeing.

    Yet you feel that the hunters are the one that must learn the regulations that protect lives that those that put themselves in life threatening situations have no responsibility by learning the regulations.

    Before you come back and say I didn't say that take a look.

    "As for the non hunters wearing blaze orange, who is going to train them as to the hunting seasons and the dates they run? I know a lot of people who haven't a clue about the opening days of hunting seasons we all know and look forward too so well."

    Now as for your first comment.

    "Outhouse or outlaw or nolaw or whoever you are."

    I don't call you thing other than Liberal which is what you are and profess to be. You were out of line if you do it again I will call you what ever I wish there will be no more respect given. Remember a little respect goes a long way.

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    Hunters are all Elmer Fudd. Boy, some of the truth coming out of our resident lib. You are not a hunter or a shooter. You are just a piece of left-wing liberal trash that comes on this site to cause trouble. Why don't you go to the antigun Brady site or the PETA site and post there with your fellow comrades.
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is the hunter's responsibility to make sure what they are shooting at, period.<br>
    <br>
    As for a minimum age for youths to hunt, I don't like to see state legislatures deciding that. It should be done by the fish and game department, where hunters usually have a more level playing field for input.<br>
    <br>
    We have these rules in Oregon:<br>
    <br>
    Youths 17 and young must have a Hunter Education Certificate to hunt anywhere except on land owned by a parent or legal guardian.<br>
    <br>
    Youths must be 12 or older to hunt big game. (11 year olds can purchase license and tags provided they turn 12 by the time the hunt begins.)<br>
    <br>
    Youths 13 and younger must be accompanied by an adult 21 years of age or older to hunt anywhere except on land owned by a patent or legal guardian.<br>
    <br>
    Except for big game, there is no minimum age limit to hunt. Nor is there an age limit to take the class to get the Hunter Education Certificate. However, it is pointed out that the youths must be mature enough and be able to read and comprehend the instruction book and materials, and be able to read, comprehend and pass the written test, and must be able to properly handle a firearm in the judgment of the instructors.<br>
    <br>
    Oregon has a new Mentored Youth Hunter Program that is causing controversy among hunters. It allows youths 9 to 13 to hunt without first passing the hunter education class or even getting a license or tags. Basically the licensed and tagged mentor accompanies one youth, they carry only one firearm between them, the two must be in immediate close proximity to each other while the youth is in possession of the firearm, and the youth uses the tag(s) of the mentor (meaning the mentor is giving his tag9s) to the youth). The controversy is that the youth is not properly trained for hunter safety, and the adults are not required to have this training. This means you can have situations where neither hunter has any hunter safety training, and that is the objection many hunters are raising.<br>
    <br>
    The issue of the mentored youth hunt aside, is the Oregon plan ideal? No, no plan is. But it works for us.<br>
    <br>
    Frankly, I would like to see it made mandatory here for all hunters to have a hunters education certificate to hunt, regardless of age. Chances are most young and middle age hunters here have taken it anyway. It's some of the older hunters who have not. And several states will not allow an out of state hunter to get a license or tags unless they have completed a hunters education course.<br>
    <br>
    But I want to see hunters police this themselves, working with the fish and game department. I do not want to see state legislatures get involved. We've already have enough meddling by non-hunters in Oregon screwing things up.

    ---

    BTW, I've been through the hunters education course in Oregon three times. Once when I was a youth (in 1972), I audited the course when my son took it, and I took it again when my daughter took the class because I wanted to become a safety instructor, which didn't pan out because of conflicting shift shedules right after I completed the course. This class takes several weekday nights to complete, but it is not difficult. The aim is not to flunk anyone, but to educate them. And I daresay everyone who takes it will learn something. The course here even covers dressing game, and survival in the woods (with particular enphasis on hypothermia). Some non-hunters have even taken the course.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"For the thousands who in the fall want to walk in a state park to look at the colors and get some fresh air lets hope they are smart enough to know when they see Elmer Fudd walking around with a shotgun they know there is a huning season."</i><br>
    <br>
    It's not legal to hunt in a state park in Oregon. Is it legal elsewhere?
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A comment about blaze orange.<br>
    <br>
    I am opposed to making blaze orange mandatory for all hunting.<br>
    <br>
    Before anyone starts pounding their keyboards, I wear blaze orange when hunting big game on public land, and when upland hunting.<br>
    <br>
    I do not wear blaze orange when hunting predators or varmints, or when hunting crows or turkeys.<br>
    <br>
    I prefer to make the decision myself, not to have mandatory regulations. All too often the regulations are geared to deer hunting and these regs are then assumed to work for all other types of hunting.
     
  20. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Cut and Paste Bob------- dwell on what I said and maybe you won't get any sleep.:) Guess who doesn't care? This problem of education of hikers and those who want to utilize the state parks where people hunt is a problem that is to be shared with both groups but the burden of education of the masses of those who don't hunt will fall on the group that does. To think that those who don't hunt shouldn't utilize the parks is not in line with correct thinking. That is what you are proposing by bitching about what I said. I dont care what you think Bob. Lay awake at nite and dream about what I think. Dan
     
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