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Way to go for Powder Creek in Lenexa Ks.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mallardfilmore, Nov 4, 2007.

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  1. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    I just learned today that Powder Creek is really working hard to promote the clay target sports when I stopped to shoot 2 rounds and the total came to $17. Turns out that they decided to hijack the non-members an extra $5 per day for the privilage of shooting at their club. Too bad they don't care to cater to the folks that stop by when they can to shoot a round or two because at that rate I'm sure there'll be more than a few that won't bother to stop anymore. The dude at the counter said it'll sure make the yearly membership look better. Not to those who don't get out very often when you have to shoot 75 rounds of trap or skeet to break even from the yearly membership costs. When I asked what the $5 ripoff money goes, he replied that it'd go for whatever since the cost of targets has gone up. All the effort to try and encourage people to get out and try the sport whenever they can and the club comes along and shoots the whole thing in the foot with a foolish "fee" so they can try and grab an extra buck. Seems to me it would make more sense to just up the cost of a round by $1 and keep those occasional shooters showing up. Typical of the way that place is run any more.
     
  2. High2

    High2 TS Member

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    Interesting observation. I was wondering how much Powder Creek charges for a membership and what membership benefits does it offer? Most clubs use the membership dues or volunteer member labor to help pay the ever increasing costs of running a club instead of having higher round costs. So I suspect they wouldn't have many dues paying members or much volunteer labor, if non-members could shoot for essentially the same price. Maybe I'm missing something, what should they do differently? Jim
     
  3. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    I'm sure not debating the fact that prices have gone up but I think penalizing the non-members is going to hurt the bottom line much more than help it. Most people aren't going to play more than about once when they figure out that a round now costs nearly $9-10. Non-member rounds are $6 and member's pay $4. A yearly membership is $150 and lifetime $1500. I'd be all up for a yearly but you have to shoot 75 rounds just to break even and with my schedule the last couple of years, I just don't have time to get out there that much so even the yearly isn't a decent option for me. They have a fairly good sized staff there and all the skeet/trap fields use the pay card machine and voice activated pulls so it isn't quite as labor intensive as it was many years ago.
    This place is a nice place to shoot but they are just not very "new shooter" friendly at all. If you're not one of the members, then you're just not important.
    The local indoor shooting range charges a daily fee but you're only paying a quarter or so for a paper target that you can shoot many times and the fee is good for all day so if you come back and buy $1 worth of targets, you can be busy for quite a while.
    Somehow I'm just not surprised at the way Powder Creek is run as they've not shown much intelligence in promoting the sport to new people and this sure doesn't help any.
     
  4. skydiver

    skydiver TS Member

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    Your math in incorrect. You did not add in the $5 dollar daily charge. If you only shot on on day it would take 73 rounds to break even but if you shot 20 days it would only take 25 rounds.
     
  5. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    No, the math is ok. The $5 daily charge only applies to non-members and it wouldn't help to buy lots of tickets at once because you still have to pay the $5 per day every time you come back. I don't think anyone is going to shoot 73 rounds in a day, even though we might like to try, so, kind of a bad example. To break even for what you pay for the membership, you have to shoot 75 rounds of trap or skeet. The real crux of the thread was the fact that the club, who should be figuring out how to keep the flow of shooters coming in, did exactly the opposite. This club doesn't exactly have them flowing in for the few pitiful registered shoots they do have but they did have a fairly decent stream of non-members coming in on Weekends and Tuesdays to shoot a round or two. It won't take long for this to fizzle to nothing. With components going out of sight and gas becoming a major investment in deciding what you do with your time, I still say this was one of the dumbest moves they've made yet and they're pretty good at dumb moves from what I've seen.
     
  6. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Come down to Sedalia and shoot with us. $3 for members and $3.50 for non-members. Dues are $40 per year. Wednesdays and Sundays 10 a.m. til.....

    Buz
     
  7. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    Buz, I'll take you up on that anytime I can get over that way. I think Powder Creek is of the Johnson County mindset that if you're not dribbling money from your pockets when you walk in, you really don't count.
     
  8. Lone Gunmen

    Lone Gunmen TS Member

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    Used to belong to Powder Ck and have good memories of the place, although at that time (8-9 yrs ago) it was a do-it-yourself operation for the most part during the day. Could never understand how a club in the KC metro area couldn'
    t get over about 4 squads for a registered shoot. Now live in Gt Falls MT and we have a 22-24 squad spring league and the population is only about 50,000.

    The timing with this is terrible. Shot and shell prices going crazy, diesel is 3.43 (here); maintaining attendance at clubs will be tougher than ever before since WWII. On top of that we have a pivotal national election coming up and it would be nice to have everybody thinking gun rights and joining clubs instead of being shied away because of prices at the gun club. The last thing KC- or anyplace else- needs is $30 per hundred practice birds.
     
  9. garmonbozia

    garmonbozia TS Member

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    A guy who has never posted his name on this forum blasts a not-for-profit shooting club in a suburban setting (just about the only one in this neck of the woods worth going to) for raising prices to make ends meet in light of ever-increasing operating costs, then won't even join as a member because it doesn't meet his "break-even" criteria, and bitches that they're not doing enough to promote the sport? What are YOU doing to promote the sport besides being cantankerous and hiding behind your web name?

    I see them doing plenty to promote the sport with their spring, summer, and fall trap leagues, skeet leagues, SCTP team, and their K-State college shoot in the spring.

    Get off your ass and buy a membership and go help out at the place instead of complaining that they don't meet your needs. In other words, support the shooting sports or shut up.

    I agree with Jimmy Borum. When all the small clubs are all closed, where are you going to shoot?
     
  10. Unsingle

    Unsingle Member

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    Ironically, I stopped by Powder Creek on Sunday morning to see what was going on. First time I was there in several years.

    Three people were shooting practice trap in front of the clubhouse, all with semi-automatics. All three guns had their magazines full, with bolts closed on all three guns. About the time I got there, they started to experience a problem with the trap. The trap boy went out to the trap house, but the three shooters never opened the bolts of their loaded guns. The shooters then started walking around the field with loaded guns over their shoulders, pointing the guns at me, the clubhouse, and anything else that got in the way. One of the most dangerous situations I have seen at a gun club in a long time. Since I was not a member of the club and I could tell that they would not appreciate any comments from me, I said nothing and left immediately.

    Mallardfilmore - I hope that was not you!
     
  11. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    S'ok Backstop, I probably didn't do the best job of keeping to my intended point on the first thread. I was a bit unhappy about the whole thing when I started.
    Garmonbozia or whatever, sounds just like the type of people that have enough money and time to pay whatever for their little hobby and don't care about those that don't have all that to persue the sport as much as they would like. When you have a tub of money that you can fritter away at will, its real easy to point fingers at everyone else that doesn't function like you do. I would imagine that over the years I've done as much or more in promoting the sports to the best of my ability and pocketbook than someone who can strut around with mostly unlimited funds and talk down to those who don't. And where do you get the "not for profit" thing? If they aren't in it for a profit then why aren't we shooting targets for absolute cost? Your mouth outruns your brains but not your wallet. By the way troll-boy, I didn't see your name anywhere either.
    If you were able to read and comprehend, you would see that at no time in any of my posts did I complain about the $6 per round cost. Since I'm not able, at this time, to get out enough to warrant the cost of the membership, I had no reason to comlain about that. $3 per round would be pretty cool, but that's a little unrealistic in this day and age and for the area that the club is in.
    What will we do when they go under, due to the lack of reasonable leadership in the club? We'll go to Cedar Hill, Smithville, Sedalia or I'll take my personal electric trap out and shoot on my own. Do I want them to fail, absolutely not because I like the club and what they have to offer but they are poorly managed and that's on the club's head not anyone else's.
    Example, not too long in the past, they had a registered shoot with a blistering 5 or 6 squads. They have 5 traps available and I realize they should keep at least one open for people who just want to shoot so that leaves 4 traps. Well, in their usual style, they only opened two traps so that it took nearly all day for that small group rather than running all 4 and getting the shoot going and speed things up. I didn't have any issue with the time frame but if there's 20 squads that's understandable but with only 5 or 6, why would you drag it out? Ignorance mostly and a lack of understanding of how to run a shoot much less the whole club.
     
  12. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    Unsingle that was not me walking around with a loaded gun and I wasn't there on this one or you'd have seen me out there fixing that problem. That club either has no one with any saftey training or that has the stones to address those who are out of line. I've spent more of my time trying to keep fools like that from walking around with loaded guns, swinging their muzzles like a flag or just walking around with the actions closed that I care to think about. Its an absolute miracle that no one has been shot out there....yet.
    Lonegunman describes part of what the original rant was that this is not the time to make stupid moves on the part time shooters in order to make an extra dollar. Increases in prices at this point are inevitable but singling out one section, such as non-members, who probably provide a steady flow if income is just ignorant.
     
  13. Tekyn gold

    Tekyn gold TS Member

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    At the prices you guy are talking, would that be the highest place to shoot in the
    U.S
     
  14. garmonbozia

    garmonbozia TS Member

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    mallard,

    You don't know me, and I don't care. If you think I have unlimited funds, you're waaay off base.

    I was at that shoot of which you speak. I didn't like it either, but c'est la vie. BTW, they only had 3 traps available that day. There's a new manager at the club now as of about 2 months ago.

    Powder Creek has been not for profit since day one in the 50's.

    Your original point, if I may sum up is this:

    You're not a member.

    You don't volunteer there.

    You have never seen a treasurer's statement for the club and therefore have no idea of their costs.

    You go there once in a blue moon and feel you're entitled to cheap rounds.

    And if the club management doesn't agree with your point of view, well, they're just a bunch of idiots runnig the club into the ground and you're going to post it in a public forum for all to see.

    That about right?

    If you really cared about the club staying open, you'd join, despite it not making that precious break-even point for you.
     
  15. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    Ok, Garmonbozia, aka trollboy, I'll try again but I'm sure it's a waste of time.

    1. If you ever shoot there, I would know you as I've been shooting there for over 17 years.

    2. You have no idea which shoot I'm talking about because they had access to all 5 traps. Had you actually been there you'd know that I asked and was given that information by the fool running the shoot.

    3. I have been a member when time and money permit and right now that's not an option because I wouldn't be able to make it cost effective. Maybe in a year or two but not now.

    4. I've helped out when I can and have even been turned down for help. Before voice releases, I've not only paid to shoot but stood out there when I wasn't shooting and pulled for other shooters and didn't even consider asking for any sort of compensation. If that isn't volunteering, I don't know what it is.

    5. I know what the costs are and why they don't make any money and that's a lack of qualified leadership and management. They have too many of the Johnson County members who go out to shoot a round of sporting clays and end up shooting 1 1/2 rounds by shooting extra at each station but NEVER pay for the extra birds. They didn't make any money on trap/skeet until they put those card readers in because of the same thing that happens on the sporting clays course.

    6. for the second time, since you trolls never read previous posts, I'll say again that in none of my posts have I raised any complaints about the base cost of the rounds nor have I indicated I was owed anything.

    7. I have posted a concern about how the club's decision was more likely to hurt the club and thereby the sport. I've shot there for enough years to see that they often make foolish decisions because this is far from the first time.

    Sorry but 10:1 you're not even from that area, just another troll.
     
  16. Tekyn gold

    Tekyn gold TS Member

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    I have shot there, singles only, Did not have enought shooters for handicap
     
  17. frostyman

    frostyman Well-Known Member

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    I have been there for several registered shoots and it is a fine place but takes way to long to shoot because of the 2 trap issue. As for practice they should either charge more for non-members OR charge a daily fee but doing both is crazy. There is no way you would want to go out there to shoot a couple of rounds at those prices but if you had to drive some where else the extra $5 would be cheap when gas is $3 a gallon (no where else within 20 miles of the place).
     
  18. Lone Gunmen

    Lone Gunmen TS Member

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    Nobody wants to see a gun club go under, least of all M. Fillmore- he's spent half his life at them. But really, at an established club, you have to ask why nonmember targets are $29 a hundred. Shoot them w/ Estates and it's 50 bucks for a hundred practice birds. Our practice rounds here are less than half that for nonmembers and members targets are about 2.75 a round after the $20 annual family fee. So you could almost buy a years membership every time you shot and not spend more money than PC's charging. The frustration is that a lot of us have supported that club, and if I was still in the area and shooting there, I'd feel gouged too. If there's been a financial problem that requires the jump in charges, there could be a posted explanation or something. Otherwise, it's just too much to pay for targets.
     
  19. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    LoneGunmen and Backstop21 hit the center with their posts. If others can run their clubs with prices that are far less than P.C., then the crux of the matter has to fall on the heads of the manager and board members not using the funds in a rational or responsible manner. When you go out there the trap help just wanders around and is usually slower than all get out to come by the fields when you want to shoot. I'd guess they have no direction from the staff as to what their jobs are or no one watches to make sure they are doing the job. Most of them are more interested in standing around coking and jokeing with each other, smoking cigarettes or chewing skoal than working.
    The last board member that I was reasonably familiar with was Mike Webb and unfortunately, he's no longer in this area as he had about as much common sense as had been seen there in quite a while. Since that time, I've just not seen anyone step up to the plate with any management style that appears to have the shooter's interest at heart. They have upgraded many of the fields with nice walkways and fences but I'm afraid with the foolish prices they've come up with, it'll be for naught pretty shortly. They used to get a lot of daily business from people who like to stop by and shoot a round or two before going home on Tuesdays and a lot of walk up traffic on the weekends. I can bet with the price increase that is less than smart, that will dry up pretty quick. Cedar Hill in Baldwin has lower prices and isn't that far away and might end up with some of P.C.'s shooters if they're not careful.
    I'd think with gas, shell and component prices going up like no tomorrow we'd be finding a way to entice people to come and visit rather than trying to skin them every time they walk in.
     
  20. Sam (ATA Noobie)

    Sam (ATA Noobie) Member

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    You mean this Powder Creek? The ones who graciously hosted the K-State shoot? The club who does a hell of a lot more for the advancement of the sport than 95% of the clubs out there?

    This would be the ISU team having a WONDERFUL time last year and the help at the club were a great bunch of guys.
     
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