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Waterboarding is torture!!!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by chiefjon, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    I have stayed out of the debate on waterboarding primarily because I was ambivilant regarding the methods used to get information to support our efforts to protect our people. However, I just watched a waterboarding video tape on the Chris Matthews show, "Hardball". It is one thing to read stories and intellectualize about the definition of torture. Jack Bauer uses one form of interrogation, normal police procedures and the "Supremes" lay out another form of infomation gathering... All you have to do is watch someone being waterboard interrogated and there is no doubt...it is torture.

    My personal comment is...we don't need it being done by Americans. We don't need it being done in America. Any uncivilized, anti-social, animal that walks upright can torture infomation out of another...is it accurate, did it get to the truth...doubtful; is it a violation of the mores and folkways of our society...IMHO absolutely.

    Clearly, I was bothered by the actual viewing of the process. Had to vent.

    Jon Schorle, Sacramento, CA
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    What ya think about chopping of Americans heads on live camera? Is that not cruel punishment too? What goes around comes around.

    Gne J
     
  3. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Torture, according to international law, is "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions

    If it ain't torture then I don't know what is.

    jim brown
     
  4. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    America should not torture people. And, waterboarding is CLEARLY torture. America should be the beacon of right and good in the world. And, if we do torture, how can we not expect our troops to be tortured by our enemies? Jake
     
  5. sammyd95

    sammyd95 TS Member

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    Guess you could always move to one of those countries,and live in peace there !
     
  6. remman

    remman TS Member

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    If we aren't nice to our enemies, they are liable to burn our soldiers bodies and hang them from a bridge. Wake up and live in the world we have, not the one you would like. Jim
     
  7. atashooter

    atashooter Member

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    OICU ... count me in. They say we shouldn't torture to keep our allies. Hell, other than Britain, we bought all our allies with cash. Cut off the cash and see how many damn allies we got.

    They do torture our troops. I will give credit that with enough pain you can make the Pope confess to being father to 6 children. You take the info you get and check it out. However, the true intelligence gained from it is worth it's weight in gold, or should I say U.S. lives.

    War ain't fair. Do what ya got to do. You go soft.....you die.

    Rick Lalich, Chesterfield, Va.
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Clean AND effective
     
  9. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    You can call it torture if you want but there is no permanent damage like there is with beheading and all the mrental anguish inflicted prior to the actual beheading. Like it or not these jihadists don't wear uniforms and don't adhere to the Geneva convention. I'm glad none of you guys are running for president because I would feel a whole lot less safe. McCain is your guy I guess but I can't understand how he can want us to not waterboard considering what he went through at the Hanoi Hilton. No Geneva convention adherance there. Broken arms, starvation, noise, sleep deprivation and worse to our military. This is not conventional war it's a war with fanatics. BTW, valuable info was obtained by waterboarding the THREE terrorists that received the treatment. Oh yes, all the U.S. people who do the actual waterboarding have been through it themselves. Wake up and smell the coffee or end up facing Mecca. JRM
     
  10. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    General Võ Nguyên Giáp, CIC of the North Vietnamese army was once quoted as saying that "America will never win another war until it learns that it must be as ruthless as its enemies."

    Morgan
     
  11. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Waterboard their ass, plug their nuts into a light socket, put tooth picks under their finger nails, I don't care... they are trying to kill us and we are worried about being nice to them? Screw it!!! Kill them all and let God sort them out.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Jerbear
     
  12. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    How naive can one be? These Islamic bast***s are not declared combatants; they take no prisoners; they are un-uniformed; the are the aggressor; they are not represented by any legitimate government; they do not abide by any generally agreed-to treaties or conventions; they hide behind women and children.

    They hate us for being ourselves, and no other reason. They want your death or total subjection. OK peacemakers, what are you going to offer them in return?

    The aggressor sets the rules of engagement. Islamic terrorists are the aggressor. They attacked the United States, killed over 3,000 people and destroyed billions of dollars in private property assets. And you want to negotiate with these thugs? They understand our boot on their throat, with our bayonets up their noses. Negotiations take place when they are supine at our feet. Until then, whatever it takes to win, we use it.

    In 1982 when Arab terrorists kidnapped diplomatic personnel of several countries, the Russians handled things as they should have. When the Russians found out the identities of the kidnappers' relatives, they killed them until the Russian diplomats were released unharmed.

    In 1972, Arab terrorists kidnapped and murdered unarmed Israeli athletes in Munich. The Mossad hunted down and killed them all. That's what terrorists understand.

    Waterboarding leaves no permanent physical or emotional scars. All humans respond to the drowning reflex. No one has ever resisted it. It works every time it's tried.

    Talk all you like, but the solution is to kill them all until they stop fighting.

    Dennis
     
  13. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    For those who are under the illusion that they are somehow "better than that" in regards to waterboarding, consider this hythetical:

    We know for a FACT that a nuclear bomb has been planted in Chicago and we also know that it is located within 2 blocks of the hotel in which your wife and family are staying. We also have in custody a person who we HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE knows the exact location of this device and how to disarm it. It is going to go off in 1 hr. and you can't get word to your family, not to mention the fact that Chicago can't be evacuated in an hours time.

    Givin that, is waterboarding an acceptable method of finding out how to save Chicago, and your family? Or would you rather concern yourself with this terrorist's civil rights?
     
  14. smokerz

    smokerz TS Member

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    So, pendennis, you promote violating the Constitution and US law, eh? You're a seditionist. Move to North Korea. You'll fit right in.
     
  15. Ken X

    Ken X TS Member

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    This country is losing the balls we once had. They are trying to kill us all, cut of our heads if they can, and we worry about being nice to them????? Pathetic! Someone may have advance information about more big buildings being blown up and thousands or hundreds being killed "permanently!" and we are going to be "nice" to them instead of getting the info out of them????????
    DAMN PATHETIC! What a shame.
     
  16. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    It always amazes and scares me to see what people will say and write when they think they are anonymous.

    jim brown
     
  17. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    Hell, I didn't say don't kill the bad guys...as far as I am concerned you can make Bagdad and Teheran parking lots. One nuke would say much more than abandoning our basic principles. We should take the politicians out of the equation, let the generals do their job and torture would not be necessary.

    Interesting feedback, though.

    JON
     
  18. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    It makes no difference if we think we are anonymous, you sound paranoid. If someone is going to try and kill my family , I will fight to the death to save them. Thank God there was a armed security guard in the church (of all places) that that little asshole decided to try and kill everyone in there. He killed two twin girls 12 hours before at another church. We need to stand up and take back our lives and country. These rag-heads want to wear explosive vest for maximum casualties, we should have and USE everything at our disposal to seek out and take out those who wish to harm our families and ourselves.

    I noticed they took down the no carry signs in the mall the other ahole shot up. Go figure.

    Jerbear... now go seek out my mac address.
     
  19. remman

    remman TS Member

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    Jim Brown...........I believe you. You sound like you are scared and amazed.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    " I've seen horrors...horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call
    me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that...But
    you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is
    necessary to those who do not know what horror means.

    Horror. Horror has a face...And you must make a friend of horror. Horror and
    moral terrorare your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared.

    They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces...Seems
    a thousand centuries ago...We went into a camp to innoculate the children.
    We left the camp after we had innoculated the children for Polio, and this old
    man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went
    back there and they had come and hacked off every innoculated arm. There
    they were in a pile...A pile of little arms. And I remember...I...I...I cried...

    I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized...like I was shot...Like I was shot with a diamond...a diamond bullet right through my forehead...And I thought:
    My God...the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect,
    genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were
    stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not
    monsters...These were men...trained cadres...these men who fought with
    their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with
    love...but they had the strength...the strength...to do that. If I had ten
    divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You
    have to have men who are moral...and at the same time who are able to
    utilize their primordal instincts to kill without feeling...without passion...
    without judgement...without judgement. Because it's judgement that
    defeats us. "
     
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