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water that burns

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ricks1, May 13, 2008.

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  1. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    biff had post on here about the hydrogen deal for gas mostly BS ok look this guy up on Google --- John Kanzius --- this is fact now do you think the goverment will let this get on the market? rick
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The funny part is the guy was looking for a cancer cure, what he found was secondary.

    It will only be practical if you can create the radio wave without a net energy loss. I don't know the signal strength or the frequency.

    Years ago there was a company working on steam powered autos, they disappeared. I saw that as sinister.

    HM
     
  3. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    It won't be the governemnt that prevents this from being a success it will be the laws of thermodyanamics. No free lunches out there.
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    HM

    I think this is the company that disappeared that you remembered. :)
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    wolfram,

    On of my favorite professors in college taught Thermo 1 and 2. James W. Harper (may he rest in peace.)

    His four laws of thremodynamics were as follows:

    1. You can't get something for nothing.

    2. You can't even get close.

    3. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

    4. Nobody said things were going to get better.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Timb99,

    You were fortunate to have studied under Harper, he was revered even out at CSU. I miss those days, studying the transfer of energy was a lot cleaner than actually being responsible for it.
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    You've heard of the infamous James W. Harper?!?!?!

    Are we talking about the same guy? I studied at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Has to be the same guy. Mostly we heard second hand accounts of his dry humor from Drs Lenz & Murphy. Seems he was a likable SOB.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Once you got past the "mean man" routine, he was a great guy.

    He actually had a sign above his door that said "Beware of Mean Man."

    One of the few people I've known who had a Class 3 full auto license! He had a Thompson with a drum magazine (of course, all I saw was the drum.)

    I graded papers for him for a Thermo 1 class.

    Great storyteller.

    Truly, "old school."

    When you learned something from him, it stuck.

    I have great memories of the guy.

    He died, waaaay too young, about 3-4 years after I graduated.
     
  10. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    I am very interested in this research and have been doin a lot of reading about it. Kanzius has hushed up about the process, but has applied for a patent. Here is a quote from the website listed below (the link is too long for the box above).

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:John_Kanzius_Produces_Hydrogen_from_Salt_Water_Using_Radio_Waves

    "Efficiency-wise, they started at around 76 percent of Faraday's theoretical limit.... They subsequently quietly reported that they surpassed 100% efficiency, which would mean that the system is somehow harnessing environmental energy such as from the zero point or some other yet-to-be discovered phenomenon."

    On another website there is discussion of the work, and speculation concerning the burn temperatures in excess of 1700 degrees C. Some are wondering if the reaction could be harnessing some unto now unknown reaction (maybe exothermic??) between certain frequencies of radio waves and chemicals contained in sea water. One researcher reported that he had spoken to a scientist at APV Engineering in Akron Ohio who said they were seeing efficiencies in excess of 2:1. However, Kanzius has been reported to say that the efficiency must be less than 1:1 "according to thermodynamic theory." Kanzius is not giving any more details of his work at this time, but is offering to sell his patent pending invention as a means of financing his cancer research.

    What I am wondering is if he will live long enough to really show us what it will do.

    Shoot well and often,

    Mark.
     
  11. LWLarson

    LWLarson Member

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    You know... I seem to remember the Professor on Gilligans Island having the castaways stir sea water in or with something for power.... Maybe this Kanzius guy ripped off the TV show....

    LWL
     
  12. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    the nice thing about science is there is no set rules 40 years ago Star Trac was fiction look at the things we have now--- 10 years ago the computer room at the place I worked was 60'x 100' now its 10'x10' this thing will not die--- if you look at H2O that should be a bomb same with peroxide rick
     
  13. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    the nice thing about science is there is no set rules 40 years ago Star Trac was fiction look at the things we have now--- 10 years ago the computer room at the place I worked was 60'x 100' now its 10'x10' this thing will not die--- if you look at H2O that should be a bomb same with peroxide rick
     
  14. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    I thought this was a thread about the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland.

    Jeff
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The problem with using water as fuel is that it already has given up it energy in becoming H20; it's the heat you get when you combine its elements. In order to split it up again you have to give that energy back. If this were not so, you could have a perpetual motion machine.

    The google results for this turn up the worst possible publications, the sort of "Infinite Energy" ragheaps which for all I know are still promoting cold fusion, "The Patterson Machine," and cavitation energy to heat water and so on, all total junk and rip-offs.

    Neil
     
  16. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Gee, Neil, next you'll tell me the Dean Drive doesn't work.
     
  17. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    ricks1

    There are set rules. They're called the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

    Generally, everything follows them regardless of the wild claims made by people trying to make a buck.
     
  18. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    No, brooks, the company was Williams. They were in Ambler, Pa. The link is to a site of steam car fiends, the forum discusses it.

    They had put their engine in a car, and gone forward with development. he unique thing was they had a "flash chamber" instead of a boiler, and warm up time was very short compared to the old steam cars of the early 20th century.

    Since the heat source was a constant flame, pollution can be reduced to a very low level.

    One of the reasons steam power lost out to I. C. was a tragic explosion that killed a prominent race driver and the resultant fear.

    Bill Lear developed a fluid that would work in a constant loop, and I read they had a bus with a working system somewhere in Ca.

    It's a very intriguing subject, and worthy of exploration in these times of
    being hostage to the rag heads.

    HM
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    halfmile,

    I know a little about steam cycles. I design power plants for a living.

    If they were truly getting 1000 psi steam at 1000°F, they were using some pretty costly high chrome alloy materials in their steam generator and steam piping.

    Here's another thing to consider. Where does the water come from for the steam? And what were they doing to it to make it suitable for those high energy conditions? You can't just use tap water. If you do, the vessel (or chamber) where you're generating your steam will become very filthy, corroded, and coated with calcium and magnesium in no time.

    Think about it. If you use one of those vaporizers in your house to keep the air from getting too dry in the winter, how fast do thoise things cover with calcium when you just use tap water. Pretty fast. And that's not particularly high pressure or hot steam.

    When we do power plants that have conditions such as those noted, we start often times with city water, which then gets purified and demineralized, and things like ammonia and other chemicals need to be added to keep the pH high to prevent corrosion. The cost of treating the water is as high as $7.00 a gallon.

    Plus, like it or not, you must have a heat source. What is the heat source? I don't know, but I'll bet its some fossil fuel. Like gasoline or natural gas. Maybe coal, but I didn't read too much of the posts you linked.

    There was a very good reason why automobile technology did not take the "steam" fork in the road, and instead embraced petroleum.

    Steam, though excellent for a stationary plant, is not well suited for a moving plant.

    Think about it. If steam was the way to go for a transportation power source, do you think all those coal trains you see on the rails would be diesel-electric? No, they'd still be steamers!
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    timb, Lear's fluid made a closed loop system possible. It was called "Learium".

    I really believe there are possigilities here. I apologize for not having better information, This came from 30+ years ago.

    a closed system a la nuclear power plants negates the water problem if it is possible. I don't know what the working pressure in the existing engines is, but I am not sure 1K psi is necessary.

    Kanzius's discovery needs to be investigated. If the RF generation needed is not excessive there may be a way to make it useful in our society.

    Maybe big Oil will just buy him out and bury it.

    HM
     
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