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Washington PITA Shoots VS ATA Shoots

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 870aa, Jan 5, 2010.

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  1. 870aa

    870aa TS Member

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    In Washington the majority of the clubs that throw PITA targets put zero effort into their shoots. By this I mean no trophies or money they just expect you to show up and give them your money. The options are so watered down you cant get your money back. The Old Skagit Gun Club is by far the best club in Western Washington for shooting PITA targets they put the most effort and always make you anticipate their next shoot. It's time for these clubs to wake up and smell the coffee or the same 5 guys who think everything is great with their shoots will be the only 5 people at their next shoot.I dont feel that this is the PITA's fault but they need to look into this because their name is on the program. Clubs have to make the effort to throw the best shoot that they can. I enjoy shooting ATA targets in Eastern Washington because of the effort that is put into their shoots with good targets,great food,and trophies. If anyone can think of improvements it would be appreciated.

    Ted Alsteen
    PITA Life Member
    Bremerton,Wa
     
  2. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    Do you get On Target magazine? Sounds like it may get worse.

    Dennis
     
  3. GoDawgs

    GoDawgs Member

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    Why is it going to get worse?
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    What you are getting at Ted is the differences in clubs not the effects of ATA Vs PITA. The thing about most trap clubs is they depend on volunteer labor to make things happen and the well of volunteer labor tends to dry up pretty fast. In refering to volunteer labor, I'm talking about a group of people that is willing to give up shooting a match and work it instead. Not a lot of rewards for these folks and more often than not dealing with the inevitable malcontent 'customers' sours you on doing this work.

    So if you are asking for suggestions for improvement try putting down the shotgun and man the grill or be a rangemaster, or what ever it is you can bring to the table in the way of help.
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Ted..... I think you are grossly mis-informed. I, personally, find your post totally out of line. The PITA has absolutley NOTHING to do with the trophy package a club offers for their shoots. The club, alone, decides what they are going, or not going, to give for trophies, not the PITA! Blame the club giving out the poor trophies for the problem, not the PITA. The ONLY time the PITA is responsible for ANY trophy package is at the PITA Grand Pacific. I can tell you, FIRST HAND, that the trophies they give at the Grand are as nice as any I have ever seen. Your statement has no fact or truth in it. Case in point: We throw 4-5 registered PITA shoots per year. At ALL our shoots, the trophies are very nice, quality, silver buckles, with a Gold HOA buckle. Silver buckles are awarded, not only to the class winners, short, mid, long yardage, and handicap champion, in all events, but, also to the high junior, lady, and vet, EACH day. Is this a cheap trophy package? You bet your butt it's not, but, we appreciate our PITA/ATA shooters, and try to show them we do by offering them the very best trophy package we can afford. Does the PITA tell us what to give out? NOT!! It does make for a smaller profit margin for the gun club, but, as long as our expenses are paid, and we make a small profit, we are happy to do so. I believe you owe the PITA an apology for posting something negative about them that is false and mis-leading..... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  6. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    Trap2,

    Climb down off of your horse. Why should Ted give PITA an apology, when he said he didn't think it was the PITA's fault?? He was referring to the Gun Clubs in Washington, and everything he had said is 100% true. If the clubs in your area have programs as you say, you are very lucky. Washington does not! Grand excluded. Come on up from California, spend a couple weeks shooting the local gun clubs and report back how great the programs were, and what wonderful trophies you won. You can even report on how many clubs have more than the Lewis as an option. No apologies needed.

    Tom Alsteen $$$SHTR
     
  7. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Tom... Answer me this, then. Do these same clubs offer better trophies for their ATA shoots? Is the title of Ted's thread "Clubs that offer poor trophy packages?" No, it's not. It's "PITA shoots versus ATA" shoots, and that's what I find totally out of line. The title of the thread alone insinuates the PITA is to blame. It does, in effect, pit the PITA against the ATA, and that's just plain wrong, and you know it. It's like saying that the PITA offers poor trophy packages at some clubs while the ATA offers better trophies at the same club. If you are unhappy with the trophies at a club, put up a thread about them. Why was it necessary for Ted to drag both the PITA and the ATA into it at all with the thread title? Say what you will, it just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry if I struck a nerve, but, if the shoe fits??? .... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  8. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    Trap 2,

    Again, Ted did not blame the PITA! The clubs Ted was referring to only shoot PITA. Up here, the west side of the state shoots PITA and the east side shoots ATA. I don't know of any club that shoots both. There might be, but I'm not aware of any. Those of us from Washington fully understand the difference Ted was trying to make. Sorry the title did not sit right with you, but you're not from Washington. You really don't know the situation, just reacting to the title. No nerves were struck and the invitation to come north and see for youself is still open.

    Tom Alsteen $$$SHTR
     
  9. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Does either organization have a requirement for a "trophy package" for any shoots?

    Ajax
     
  10. 870aa

    870aa TS Member

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    Trap 2,

    Sorry I have been away from my computer for a couple days so now I can give you a responce to your statement. If you read my statement I never said PITA was at fault in any way,I just think it would be beneficial to them to look into the matter here in Washington.You are upset about me blaming the PITA which I did not do.My thread is not misleading if you read it and I offer no apoligies for it.Would you have been ok if the title of my thread said "Washington PITA Shoots compared to Washington ATA shoots"? In my opinion Washington ATA shoots are 100 times better but thats just my feelings. I can tell you FIRST HAND that I have lived and shot in the Bay Area of California in the late 80's and it was best Trapshooting state I have lived in. I can tell you FIRST HAND that I have lived and shot in Southern Oregon and it was a close second. Lastly I can tell you FIRST HAND that regular weekend shoots in Washington cant hold a candle to either California or Oregon. I'm so glad that you get to shoot for great trophies that makes shooting fun but up here in Washington minus the Grand Pacific and very few other shoots we dont.I have donated 30 flats of shells for trophies at a local one day shoot to try to help get the ball rolling and show them how to get attendance up but clubs have to put some effort of their own into maintaining good attendance.

    Ted
     
  11. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    The challenge with any clubs prizes are ultimately related to the number of shooters. Clubs in these times have had to cut back because registered shoots are down for most PITA clubs.Its more and more difficult to get "donated" money,and prizes and volunteers. At our club we have tuned the traps per Chuck and Mike instructions from Golden West Ind. We set the control boxes to instant release, illiminating the factory set delay. We have rewired the speakers by-passing the resistors. You call for a target? you better be ready, because they are out of the hous NOW. We have met with OSTA and PITA officials to try and get better attendance. Nothing seems to work. We raise the fee's? people won't come. We maintain the old fee's and have to cut the prizes,people don't come. Its not the same game it used to be. The shooter's are older and most don't want, or just can't work anymore, so we have to pay for labor which drops to the bottom line. The younger shooters prefer Sporting Clay's and 5 Stand,these are more sociable shoots. That equates to more fun. The cost of operating is up and the larger the club the more this impacts the bottom line. More clubs are operating like a business as they should. We are all in the entertainment business. We look harder at the cost of doing business today. We have to. Our costs are up but the price of a round has not increased at the same rate. A lot of clubs, our's included have brought in other venues to attract more shooters. Its been very successfull. Sporting Clays is $25.00-$40.00 a 100. 5 stand is $5.00-$8.00 for 25,these prices vary from club to club. HOWEVER they make the clubs substantially more money.Not only from net profit per bird,more rounds shot on days open, but ultimatley? more enjoyment for the customers "entertainment" dollar. The fact is the sport of trap needs to change. The trap shooters need to step up and save this sport. They have to help club management throw the shoots at their respective clubs. Some clubs are real good at this, but from what I see that holds true more for the smaller clubs. If this don't happen? we will see registerd targets die. Its happening all over the place right now. Thats the only way a club can increase the prize packages and draw more shooters. Its a simple business really. We sell one thing,entertainment. None of us manufacture anything, and we sure as hell did't invent this game. Maybe the PITA/ATA could look at lowering daily fee's. Maybe they could look at lowering their overhead,we in business do this all the time. What if the dailys were spread out for "added money" through incentives of some kind through out the year. Does it all really have to go to the State shoot's for instance? We could start an "ADOPT A TRAP" program. Say one club brings a squad to another clubs shoot. That squad adopts trap one. The score it,they fill the machine,they ref it,They own it.The host club puts up signage "This Trap Adopted by XYZ Club" with club info on the signage. The host club pays back a portion of the profit's to that club. The host club gains a squad,lower's their overhead,promotes the support of another club (novel idea)Everyone would benefit in many way.
    Some facts,Ideas and thoughts on helping the sport by getting outside the box as well as looking at what is in the box now.

    Sorry for the long thread.

    Dennis
     
  12. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, do you have night league shooting at your club?

    Ajax
     
  13. 870aa

    870aa TS Member

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    Dennis,

    Adopt A Trap is one of the best ideas I've heard of in a long time. Just think if this could be implemented at a State Shoot and 20 clubs brought people to help.It would also be cool if they had a Club Championship Day at the State or Grand. Morale would be up because of the team aspect and attendance would go up and the costs would go down. The benefits are endless.

    Ted
     
  14. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    Ajax thats not a bad Idea, We have 4 field that are lit.
    Thank you Ted. Another idea I've been toying with is having a round table discussional meeting with clubs around us.Just to kick ideas like this around. Whats working,whats not working. Can we pool our resourses to lower delivered bird costs,component bargaining,you know what I mean? I know you didn't mean to trip Trap 2's trigger and I not trying to either with the following statement. The PITA / ATA nor the State associations are doing alot of these things. The Multiplex seems to work for some and not others. But we clubs especially around each other have certain cultures that may not be related to say eastern Washington or southern California for instance. But by getting together we will come up with some things that would benefit some clubs but not others. Point is if more of us work together and come up with ideas like the Multiplex or Adopt a Trap word will get around and things will begin to change direction. If we rebuild the enthusiasm we reclaim the game.
    Just a thought.

    Thanx again

    Dennis
     
  15. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    Ted by the way IF we would have held the Oregon State shoot this year we would have floated this idea to other clubs. But we're not

    Dennis
     
  16. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Dennis,

    The reason I asked, I saw and shot at a lot of clubs throwing league target in the 70/80's and a lot of these shooters are now the registered shooters of today. Now I don't see many clubs throwing league targets, and especially at night, so the working people can shoot. Most clubs have a night they are open for practice. It should be a good time to hold a 50 bird league. Maybe 25 singles and 25 Handicap or to get the Sporting guys involved rotate the 5 stand through it.

    I feel league shooting will help the clubs more than anything right now.

    BTW Dennis, you guys run a good shoot.

    Thanks,
    Ajax
     
  17. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Jack, I may be misunderstanding some but Cottage Grove does have a winter league every year and it's essentially done on Tuesday evenings. 6 weeks and a squad can come in as a team or individuals can be assigned to incomplete teams. I've encouraged board members to consider more league shooting. Perhaps your nudging will help there.....Bob Dodd
     
  18. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bob, the last time we had a league at Evergreen we had about 20 teams. We shot Singles and Handicap and threw in a wobble and you had to shoot the wobble with one shot. A lot of guys I know are PITA and ATA shooters out of that league. Most clubs have some lighted fields and most have a game night. We shot our league and then went and shot the games with the game shooter the first year. The next year most of the game shooters were in the league. They found out we were not the snobs they thought we were and we found out they could break targets with less than Longshot at 1550. LOL.

    If a person has kids and kids do most of the activities that are now available, the only time Mom and Dad(kids also) have the time to shoot is during the week. I really feel the clubs are not taping into a great resource by not having more leagues.

    Ted, it was rude of me not to start another thread. My apologies.

    Ajax
     
  19. 870aa

    870aa TS Member

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    NSXER,

    I believe that the Magnum option has saved Trapshooting in this state over the last several years. Somedays people cant even put a 5 together let alone a couple of 25's and if they arent feeling it that day they pull out of the options.I'm sure they are just trying to recoupe some of the funds that they have spent for the day, it happens. Hell I've pulled out of the next event completely after shooting a poor score people have bad days.Its a mental game.

    870AA
     
  20. 870aa

    870aa TS Member

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    Went out to Bremerton Trap and Skeet today and checked out the Sporting Clays shoot. I have to say that looks like alot of fun. I think I have a new reason to buy another gun LOL. I enjoyed shooting some Continental saturday @ Poulsbo with my old 870 Express. I truely enjoyed shooting for the first time in a long time. Maybe I should get away from registered and just shoot for fun again.

    870AA
     
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