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***** WAS AT THE PATTERN BOARD *****

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by N. J. BOB, Apr 2, 2008.

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  1. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Don't touch it. I repeat don"t touch it. Give it at least 3000 rounds before you make any adjustments and then only with the supervision of someone who knows how. Have lots of fun and break them all...
     
  2. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    What was the POI of your most recent gun prior to this one? Adjusting to that would be a logical starting point..
     
  3. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    goose2, I disagree. You should touch it, and you should do it now. The barrels shoot to widely dissimilar POIs, and that may/will cause you problems. I know it work drive me nuts.

    If your measurements are correct, and both of the O/U barrels hit POA @13 yards, the the Under shoots "flat" out to 40 yards. That's zero POI @13 yards and very close to zero POI @40 yards. The Over barrel started at least 3/4" higher than the Under, so for it to shoot the same, it should print about 3/4" above POA @13 yards. Since it didn't, it will shoot lower than the under @40 yards.

    At 13 yards you should be able to measure more accurately than 2-3". If it is 2" high @13 then it will be very, very close to 6" high @40 yards. As they say in the old school, that's a 70/30 shooter. 6" difference in POI at 40 yards is a lot.

    My recommendation is the same s PheasantMaster's. Go and get your old gun and shoot it @13 yards to see what you had. Then set the new barrels (both) up the same as your old. If you can't do that, I'd adjust your rib and/or comb so that the O/U shot to 3" high @13 yards, then adjust the Unsingle to match. That's really close to what most "flat shooting gun shooters" use for ATA.

    Then go out and shoot and adjust until you are smoking birds with the bird/bead relationship you prefer.

    Then go back to the pattern board and shoot for POI again. Record what you have so you can recreate it later, if you have to.
     
  4. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    If you have room why not pattern for p.o.i. at 35 yds which is the distance at which most 16yd. targets are broken--I never understood why people want to pattern at any range other than where they usually break targets.
     
  5. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    goose2, when you raise the comb on the fixed rib O/U you will see stacked beads instead of a figure 8. You may even see a little rib between the beads. That's fine. Forget the Figure 8 stuff. If you raise the comb and scrunch your cheek down to see the same figure-8, you have defeated the purpose. The purpose of raising the comb is raising your eye. Then when you line up your eye and the bead on the target, the gun is pointing higher, so it shoots higher.

    Raise the comb enough so that you are floating the birds in the way you are accustomed to. Forget about the middle bead. It serves no purpose other than a double check to see you have the gun mounted properly.
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Goose, if you have your old gun, shoot it on the pattern board, and match your new gun to the old POI. This is for starters only. Keep an open mind, as this is an "opportunity" to set your new gun up correctly. After you've done that, go to a trap field and set it on straightaways. Shoot your normal speed, and watch your breaks. Raise or lower your comb till your in the middle of 'em. Then shoot hard angles and see if your impact changes. Raise the comb if your hitting the bottom of the targets. From then on, it is your responsibility to be consistant, and adjust to how your breaks look. Shooter consistancy is a stockmakers nightmare. Setting up a doubles gun is whole new ballgame. You should start by making your bottom barrel shoot close to your 16 yard set up.
    Good luck. You have a new gun. Take the time to do it right, and don't rush it.
    Every gun has a learning curve. The pattern board initially allows you to determine if your gun needs right or left adjustment. After you get your gun shooting "Where you look", you should revisit the pattern board and document the height so you know how high it shoots at a given yardage. Then write it down for future reference.
     
  7. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    All this "pattern yout old gun" stuff assumes that your old gun suited you fine. If it did, why did you change guns? More likely your old gun could have used some tweaking and that is why you changed - to give you the adjustability your old gun probably did not have.

    I agree that you should NOT just change the unsingle's POI to "neutral" since you say you like a high POI (you like to float the target above the front bead). What I would do is to set the trap for straighaways and shoot the unsingle at a number of targets. Make slight adjustments to the rib and comb until you are satisfied with the results. This is your starting point. It is the point at which the gun is shooting where you are looking. All other adjustments start from here.

    The potential problem is with the bottom barrel of the O/U. If you want it to shoot to the same POI as the unsingle you probably have to change the barrel hanger. You may also have to move the comb when you shoot doubles. The top barrel is probably OK for the second shot at doubles where the target is flat or dropping and you want a flatter shooting gun.
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Do it the way Setterman tells you to do the unsingle. Exactly that way because that's exactly the way to do it, exactly the right "idea" of POI.

    The doubles gun is more of a challenge. I'd leave it like it is. You may have to shoot over the first bird a bit, but that's just part of learning to shoot doubles with a gun like that. That's way easier than shooting under the second bird, which is what you will have to do if you jack it up.

    But the "idea" of the POI of a doubles gun is the way Setterman has approached it. You do not start this process with a conception of where it shoots (as long as it's not much-high or, worse, much-low). What's the point? It's just a number. The "baseline" datum is the score. When the score is OK, that's when you seriously -off a bench rest - test the POI at 13 yards. And there's no point in projecting it out to 40 yards or whatever. What you will know is that when the gun's about right it shoots about here. Then you can go exploring. Raise the comb a bit (if you are not hitting them all) and see what happens. If the score go up, then you have new information, that the new tested POI is better than the one before. "Better" meaning more likely to break birds. Then maybe lower it if raising the comb did not raise the score.

    comp 1, above, has a point. If you really want to know for sure where the pattern is at some distance, the sure way is to find out. The math from 13-yards works fine, but if you want to know for double-dog certain that it shoots 7 inches high at 35 yards then shoot it at 35 yards. But this is just a number, meaningless until attached to the score which results from it. It's something to think about, maybe talk about at the club, but it is no way to start setting up a gun. You do that by shooting birds, not paper.

    Neil
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    For doubles learn to trap or spot shoot the first bird. Then all you need to worry about is the POI of the top barrel. Makes the game a whole lot easier. If you want to see how it is done go to www. issf.tv/ and click on championship, then 2007, then mens double trap finals. The ISU shooters have absolutely no gun movement on the first bird, and inkball them just about every time. HMB
     
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