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Warning from a Vet re: Concealed Carry and VA

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by benedict1, Jan 27, 2011.

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  1. benedict1

    benedict1 TS Member

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    A good friend sent this my way today. Big Sis and Big Gov are moving on all fronts.

    "HEADS-UP VA VETS WHO CONCEAL CARRY...SERIOUS!
    From a Vietnam Vet and retired Police Officer:
    'I had a doctor's appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found out something very interesting that I would like to pass along. While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the ...end of the exam three questions:
    1. Did I feel stressed?
    2. Did I feel threatened?
    3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
    The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to Homeland Security.'
    Looks like they are going after the vets first. Other gun people like retired law enforcement will probably be next.
    Then when they go after the civilians, what argument will they have?
    Be forewarned and be aware.
    The Obama administration has gone on record as considering veterans and gun owners potential terrorists.
    Whether you are a gun owner veteran or not, you've been warned.
    If you know veterans and gun owners, please pass this on to them.
    Be very cautious about what you say and to whom."

    I am not a vet nor do I go to the VA but a friend said that he has been asked these questions on at least one visit in the last year.

    Rumor mill has it in the aftermath of the Arizona tragedy that big gun control push is coming fast while they still have the White House and can try to get away with all kinds of executive orders.
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    # - 1) I feel "Stressed" because our government is failing the American people.

    # - 2) I feel "Threatened" because our government is becoming more socialist everyday and threatening the american way of life.

    # - 3) I would like to see the same type of "Harm" done to our present (and some past) legislative body as they have done to the American people.

    FEAB9

    Curt
     
  3. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Let me call BS on this

    I dont think that is correct. I used to work in a VA Regional Counsel's office.

    There are very very very limited occassions where a health care person may release any information to anyone. That includes the VA police themselves on their own property.

    Immediate harm focused at someone else might and I say might be one of those cases.

    Now there are other things they could do if they believe you are an immediate threat to yourself but that would involve some type of committment, where they would have to follow state law just as anyone else would have to follow it.

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  4. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    You can get some good info on this here at this web site, there is some truth to it.
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    If you tell your attorney that you want to or are planning to hurt someone, they are REQUIRED by law to report this to authorities, which may cause issues if you have a handgun carry permit. Your Doctor is under the same legal burden.

    My Martial Arts Trainer calls this "committing suicide by mouth". Think before you speak.

    If stress or perceived threats are sufficient to affect your life, then you DO have issues.

    If you want to hurt someone and are dumb enough to tell someone, then you are asking for problems.

    Just my never to be humble opinion.

    If you HAVE to do the deed, Shoot it, Shovel it, and Shut Up about it. Theoretically speaking, of course.
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Shooting coach that isnt right. Lets distinguish this a little.

    What an attorney might have an obligation to do is to report what he/she belives might be an immediate threat of violence but he is also violating some ethics rules by doing that.

    Doctors or health care professionals might owe that duty to a specific named victim and in their absence to the police but usually that is a civil duty unless a state statute makes it otherwise

    Attorney and doctor's duties are really no different than your duty(as a private citizen) (with some minor exceptions which have been spelled out in civil case law). What is different is whom they are likely to come in contact with.

    These are more civil duties as opposed to criminal duties.

    Slightly different but similar for a doctor or health care professional where there are mandatory reporting requirements

    One of the exceptions might be mandatory reporting by certain care providers for suspected child abuse or to a much lesser degree elder abuse or domestic abuse. Also some jurisdictions require mandatory reporting of gunshot wounds. Violations of those required reporting might be criminal or civil- depends.




    In America with rare exceptions there is no duty to take action or face criminal charges yourself. Generally those exceptions are applied to law enforcement or emergency workers.

    A doctor for example seeing someone choke to death next to him in a restaurant, has no duty to interupt his own meal and help- no civil duty and no criminal duty.

    A doctor in a hospital setting does have a duty of a civil nature if that patient is his and might have a duty in a hospital cafeteria if that were to occur. Might.

    What neither doctors or lawyers are allowed to do is to be part of the crime. For example a client comes in and says I am going to kill someone, how can I get away with it. Now they are involved in the crime themselves.

    Its a very complicated issue with many exceptions and varies state to state.

    The actual procedure though is per my original post.

    The original poster's post is a myth-- I have seen this floating around before- made up

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    In the triage before seeing my VA doctor I am always asked if I suffer from any kind of depression or feel threatened in any way. Watch what you say. Watch what you post!! Jimmy Borum
     
  8. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    jbor-

    A fool is someone suffering from depression and hiding that from a health care professional.

    This paranoia is amazing.


    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  9. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to inform you, Gene, but you are very wrong on this issue. Check out the ACLU website.

    After I was discharged from the hospital (recent hip surgery), I got a call asking SPECIFICALLY if I was depressed or suicidal. That was the sole purpose of the call. I've had several surgeries in my lifetime, and have never had this occur as a follow up before.
     
  10. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Disabled VietNam veteran here (gunshot wounds to left arm & hand, nerve damage, 60% disabled & loss of use of 1 extremity),

    FWIW I've been asked these "do you ever feel depressed" type questions at the VA clinic also, for why?? I dunno'? Maybe they think every VN vet must have latent PTSD??

    While we're on the subject, I've wondered..........these guys that get on VA disability for PTSD, do they then have problems with the BATF forms for buying a gun?

    John C. Saubak

    VietNam 1967-'68
     
  11. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    You know Gene, you at times give good info here and, at other times, your comments aren't worth the effort of a comment. Jimmy Borum
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Recurvy you are wrong- I dont know what you are reading but it isnt that site.

    Very limited exceptions(to HIPAA) explained on that site and none of them have anything to do with you saying you are depressed. There are numerous statutes and constituional rights beyond HIPAA that arent even discussed. Regardless.

    Here is what the site states

    " The HIPAA rules provide a wide variety of circumstances under which medical information can be disclosed for law enforcement-related purposes without explicitly requiring a warrant.[iii] These circumstances include (1) law enforcement requests for information to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, witness, or missing person (2) instances where there has been a crime committed on the premises of the covered entity, and (3) in a medical emergency in connection with a crime.[iv]

    In other words, law enforcement is entitled to your records simply by asserting that you are a suspect or the victim of a crime.

    The regulations also contain 2 separate subsections that specifically permit the release of private medical information for "National security and intelligence activities" as well as "Protective services for the President and others." "

    Point to where it says depression, stress or anything else of importance that you are worried about. I think the site mistates victim of a crime exception and that has not been clearly defined by case law. A very limited exception is that you are unconscious and they are investigating an assualt or rape. They will use the information on your injuries and maybe a rape kit test result but they wont have access to any other part of your medical record.

    If they did have that information how is that going to impact your gun rights? Plus it is nothing that has been discussed here anyway.

    Waiting for you to quote the federal statute, state law, or even this somewhat biased site to make your point.

    Thanks

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    PS- Recurvy are you alleging you received a call from a law enforcement or ATF agent after you were released from the hospital? You need to contact an attorney if that is what you are alleging or you can actually file a complaint with the Health and Human Serivices , EEO division. I have a suit going with one of those now.

    PPS on the gun forms- you answer the question to the best of your ability. It is obvious what the answer is that does not allow someone to sell you a gun. However it is always up to the FFL holder to deny you a gun no matter what your answers are.
     
  13. Garry

    Garry Active Member

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    Benedict 1, how did the nurse know that your friend had a concealed weapons permit to begin with?

    Gene, I had an appointment with the VA clinic in Marshalltown, Iowa on Jan.7, 2011. During the lab work before I saw my assigned VA health practitioner, I was asked these same three questions word for word by the lab tech. I answered no to all three questions but I did not ask her the purpose of the questions nor the actions the VA is required to take when a no answer is given. I have another appointment on Feb. 7 and I will ask these questions.
     
  14. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    USA PATRIOT Act: Title VIII, Title X.

    Reauthorization: President Barack Obama, on Saturday, February 27, 2010, signed into law legislation that would temporarily extend for one year, three controversial provisions of the Patriot Act that had been set to expire. On of the provisions that has been reauthorized allows seizure of records and property in anti-terrorism operations. The Obama administration publicly stated at one time that tea party members were considered to be terrorists.

    The USA PATRIOT Act applies to terrorist, suspected terrorist, and law abiding citizens.

    In November 2005, BusinessWeek reported that the FBI had issued tens of thousands of NSLs and had obtained one million financial, credit, employment, and in some cases, health records from the customers of targeted Las Vegas businesses. Selected businesses included casinos, storage warehouses, and car rental agencies. An anonymous Justice official claimed that such requests were permitted under section 505 of the USA PATRIOT Act.
     
  15. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    And I would like to add along with the tea party people, veterans as being potential enemies of the state. I think this might have come out of pelosi's mouth in 2010. Added, go to newsmax.com and read thread "obama has gun restrictions in his sights"
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    The VA does ask these questions and it is for health reasons. They also ask if you have been a victim of sexual trauma, while you were in the military, at least one time.

    I am pretty familar with the VA. I sue them on behalf of Vets.

    Recurvy I still dont see your point - it wasnt in the aclu website (which does have some bias but generally good people). You have now strayed to some second hand reference to a buisness week article in 2005?

    Actually that Veterans were a threat was a Janet Napoliano issue- homeland security report. She should have been fired and the head of the American Legion should have resigned for trying to kiss her butt during an interview on national TV

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  17. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Gene, you are struggling to keep your head above water. Read the provisions that are posted. You asked me to support what I wrote earlier, and I did.

    Also, did I not write that Obama's administration classified tea party members as terrorists? Whose administration does Napolitano belong to? Is she now fired? Resigned? If they were classified as terrorist at that time, how many tea party members had their records pulled? Can you tell us?

    That's the problem right there. It's up to THEM who they classify as a terrorist. And they don't have to say it publicly, either. They have 30 days to sneak and peek before they have to inform anyone. They can sneak and peak, then after 30 days desist. Then they don't have to tell ANYBODY. But the records that they obtain are now on file.

    I work in in the Homeland Security industry now, BTW.
     
  18. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    anyone who think the Tea Party, across the board, is friendly towards Veterans, needs to look at legislation Michele Bachmann wants to introduce regarding disabled vet compensation....what a p.o.s., to the third degree.
     
  19. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    This is not about the Tea Party, it is about what the government can and cannot legally do as pertains to your records (health and otherwise). The Tea Party is used as an example of how the government can manipulate the Patriot Act, and there is one solid known instance of this having happened already in Las Vegas.

    I am tired of people telling those of us who stay wary that we are hysterical fear mongerers. PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around you, or you'll be singing a sad tune in a few years.
     
  20. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    recurvey - Do not try to argue or reason with Gene. I suppose he is a good fellow and evidently works for the benefit of vets (his words). Gene is one of those people who evidently has a high intellect. I have seen, over the years, there are many on TS.com more intelligent than me. But Gene is evidently in that small group of intelligent people who sees it as his duty to prove his superiority. A few in that group see the rest of us as boobs to be shown the enlightened way. Stay safe and keep as much personal info as possible stored in your mind and not printed in a record book somewhere for bureaucrats to make use of. Jimmy Borum
     
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