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Want your thoughts please

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by gamehog2, Jul 25, 2007.

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  1. gamehog2

    gamehog2 TS Member

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    Want your thoughts please??????????????????

    Want to know what everyone thinks about this??????

    If I had my choice, the ATA/PITA would change the rules so that all shooters that have attained A class or the 23 yard line for example could only shoot for their class and yardage and not be allowed to "fall back" to Sub Junior, Junior, Lady, Vet, or Senior Vet, unless that is the classification they signed up for in advance. If they chose to shoot for the other classification, then they would not be shooting in Class or yardage. IMHO this game has no advantage to be gained by being male like in other sports. We have kids in this sport that are so far past most of the shooters and the fact that they can shoot for whatever class or fall back to junior is not fair to the new juniors or to the male shooters.

    I would like to see everyone who has the Class/Yardage above only shoot for Class or yardage trophies. This would give newer shooters, or the less proficient shooters, in the lower classes/yardages a chance to win something, and possibly keep more people in the sport.

    Just curious what everyone thinks.

    Darrel
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Darrell- Nothing wrong with your logic. You are making the assumption that the Sub Jr class is for new shooters who shoot lower scores and there are some Sub Jr shooters who are AA 27 AA.

    On the other hand, your suggestion would make selection of a Sub Jr All American team rather difficult. No matter how we design a classification system, there always seems to be some shooters in every class that shoot better than the other shooters in the class.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. gamehog2

    gamehog2 TS Member

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    I'm not suggesting that they change the sub junior/junior classification for the All American points, or any other class for that matter. I assume that these All American classifications are done in some way by scores, and that would not have to change. All I would like to see is that as shooters attain the higher classes that we all shoot the same classifications (Class/Yardage)and leave the others (Lady, Vet, Senior Vet, Junior,& Sub Junior)for the people who want to(and state so in advance)shoot for that class.

    I know there are some great young shooters as well as some great senior shooters out there. I am getting beat up on bad by a couple juniors at our club and I AM HAPPY to see it.

    Just think it is only fair to all concerned that shooters of this caliber classify the same as the male shooters that have only class/yardage to shoot for.

    Only other fair way would be to come up with a second class for Males 20-65. I don't really want to see that happen though.

    Darrel

    P.S. I was an SCTP coach and go out of my way still to help these younger shooters and anyone else that asks. They are the future of the sport...
     
  4. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    I have to agree with you. Young people, old people and females have many more chances to win something compared to 19-65 year old males. I Wi. we even have two classes for women. So if you were a say 16 year old female you could get Junior,or one of the ladies classes, or her regular class. Then the majority of us males have only one chance at a trophy. I pay the same amount at the cashier and yet I only have a shot at 1/3 the trophies. Yes yes I know all about adding the trophies to intice the young and females but I agree that they should have to declare which trophy the are shooting for before they shoot. Or as Darrel says once they attain a certain class no matter what gender or age they are in that class only.
     
  5. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Unless I'm missing a point, generally, one must declare which trophy he or she prefers if there's a shoot off or two involved. Once he/she has declared his or her choice, there is no "falling back" in my experience. I'm approaching 68 yrs and not liking one thing about it but the only time this comes to my attention is when there's several shooters tied with me for a class win and if it means I'm closer to the end-o-day bottle of beer, I'll take the Vet trophy instead of even shooting off anyway. Then, generally speaking, small shoots, the "special class" trophies are pretty meaningless in my experience - designed to keep the youngster especially interested in taking something home with them. I don't see a problem you're trying to fix but dementia is crowding my hard drive permanently too....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  6. k80cmbo

    k80cmbo TS Member

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    They are only going to be Sub Jr and Jr for a few years.Don't make it to hard on them. I've seen a few clean up when they where in the Sub Jr and Jr class,then never did much after turning 18.Let them have there few mins of glory when they can.
     
  7. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    wireguy - it's so invigorating to meet new people every day but you'd think they'd go along with the program and not pretend we already know each other, eh? RE doubles, you'd think at times I was shooting triples with all the false moves I can make. We need a special category just for us'ns.
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    What are the rules now? Specifically, I mean. And what is the outcome now, again, specifically. And what would this proposal change? A couple of examples would help.

    We really have to know all that before we can say if it's a good idea or not.

    Neil
     
  9. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

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    We do need to be concerned about the younger shooters, since they are the future of your sport. On the flipside you need to address the largest class of shooters, which is the males 19 to 65. They fund 90% of every shoot and generally fund their kids who may be shooting the junior and sub-junior classes.

    Darrell is correct in which he states "the group for the most part has the least opportunity to win because first and foremost they are the largest class of shooters and secondly, regardless of shooting skill they simply face the most competition." The idea of the catagory shooters choosing upfront is a good idea. The young men and women with All-State and All American status are likely to shoot for the championships, leaving the less experienced shooters shoot the catagory places. Just my opinion!

    Rick
     
  10. gamehog2

    gamehog2 TS Member

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    Neil,

    An example would be this week in the Western Zone we had a young lady from southern Calif. that shot in Reno. I did meet her and her father and will say up front that they were both class acts. She is as good a shooter as anybody I have met, was in a zone shoot off (class, not junior or lady to start) in one of the events. When she missed there I heard that she was to gl bank targets for lady or junior I think. I know she took an overall trophy in the lady classification. As a 19-65 male, I have no other class to "fall back to".
    I would like to see the rules changed so shooters of that caliber as mentioned above have to shoot for the same trophies as the rest of us. In my case it would probably mean I will not win as many times as some of these young shooters and some of the ladies I have shot with are out of my league at this point in my shooting life, but that is incentive for me to practice. The reason I would like to see it change is that there are some of the Lady, Junior, and Sub Juniors that are so good, no one in their special class has any chance to win, unless they chose to shoot class/yardage. Hope what I am trying to say makes sense.
    JMNO,
    Darrel
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts are that I can't tell if you are trying to protect most category shooters from the elite category shooters, or if you are just unhappy that those category shooters get a chance at another target that you don't get.

    Your example above must have some facts wrong, because she could not have fallen back to category after entering the shootoff for "(class, not junior or lady to start)". It can happen, just not as you described, assuming we are talking about ATA trophies.

    Although your descriptions of the rule are not really correct, I understand what you are saying. I think bringing averages into the issue of category shooters is just asking for trouble.

    That's my $.02
     
  12. gamehog2

    gamehog2 TS Member

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    Guess the easiest way to say this is that in my opinion, for anyone with an A classification or above and snyone 23 yards and above should only have 1 classification to shoot for like males 19-65.

    I may not have gotten all the facts right in the example above except that she did take the ladies singles championship in singles. Just like to see everyone have the same opportunities.

    Darrel

    The example I used to answer the question above should in no way reflect on the young lady I used in the example. She is, as far as I can tell, a class act and without question, a great shooter in any classification.....
     
  13. Dave90T

    Dave90T TS Member

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    Everyone does have the same opportunity. You get 100 targets. If I don't shoot well, I don't expect a trophy. I don't think we should get in the habit of "feel good" trophies. Just have fun and shoot - this IS after all, supposed to be for enjoyment, not gratification though you get that when you win. People show up to break targets, and in my mind winning is an after-thought. If you show up expecting to win a trophy, you're already thinking too much, and already have lost!

    The instance you described could not have happened - you can not fall back from a class to a category trophy. You can only fall back to a category if you are shooting for the championship.

    Keep things the way they are.

    Classes are for averages.

    Categories are for age and gender consideration.

    E.g. You didn't "lose" because the other person shot a 94. You didn't win because you didn't shoot a 95. There is no competition but that in your head - its you and the trap.
     
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