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Wage balance Why the big change

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by copper, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. copper

    copper Member

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    Came across this in 1980 the average CEO made 42 times what average worker made and now is 344 times why and how did this happen . I know people are going to think I am a DEM for posting this and No I am not. tHERE is something very wrong with this
     
  2. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    What a BS explanation!! It is greed,its that simple!
     
  3. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Rick,

    If, you are saying that that they are worth that difference, I disagree. In theory, the company belonge to the stockholders and not to the executives. In reality, not all stockholders are equal. The institutional shareholders get infinitely more attention than all the other stockholders combined. For the most part, the institutions call the shots on many of the matters at the top levels of the companies since they can move the stock price by their actions. Many of the executives move from company to company and from industry to industry as if there were no barriers. Their compensation always increases and the differential between the top execs and the "workers" grows.

    Personally, I believe that this is destructive in the extreme. It build resentment and separates the workers from identification with their employers (the company). American Airlines is a case in point. The pilots and other personnel have forgone wage increases for years in order to save the company while a progression of "exectutive teams" have come on board and run the company into the ground. American Airlines, once the best airline in the country is now in bankruptcy. The employees who put their money where their hearts were, are in trouble while the execs are still trying to figure out what to spend their bonuses on.
     
  4. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Yep, those football players are greedy. All should be paid the same, no matter what the talent!
     
  5. Capjim

    Capjim TS Member

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    Don't care how much a CEO makes, I just don't care. I'm a CEO and I haven't taken a paycheck in 6 months (Thank you BO) so if you compare my salary to the Ave. worker in my company it would be .01 times. These are private Companies it's none or our business what they pay the CEO. Steve Jobs was the CEO of Apple he was paid $1.00 a year. These types of 'News' are put out to create class warfare.
     
  6. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    What I have seen in my 70+ years is the increases in many CEO compensation is due to the increased profitability of the company. Problem is, most of the profit increase is due to reducing wages and benefits for employees and retirees. I am a die hard conservative, but, enough is enough. Several years ago the take aways were just being done to the union people. I said then that when that is done they will start on the management and salaried people. That has begun with retired management & salaried people in my area, they have no union to defend their position.

    The government jobs are much the same. Years back, a government job had so-so pay but good benefits and retirement. Now, the government jobs pay higher than similar private sector employment. Gov't unions contribute a lot to get officials elected they they demand higher pay.
     
  7. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Greed is the basis of capitalism. If it weren't for greed everybody would be sucking up welfare. Without greedy capitalism, we could be enjoying the good life in Cuba or North Korea. Thanks but I'll pass.

    Just who should tell a corporation what they should pay anybody?- from the CEO down to the janitor.
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    The 344/1 ratio is very small percentage of the companies in the US. These types of statements are designed to create political class separation.

    If the CEO is the founder of the company, how do you know what sacrifices he or she made to build their business? No one has the right to tell them what they should or shouldn't make.

    And, if my 401K is invested in XYZ Corp.,I want the board of XYZ to hire the best CEO possible to keep the stock solvent and growing. Thats how the system works.
     
  9. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Setterman:

    What if your 401K's mutual funds include Cisco Systems? For the fiscal year ending July 30, 2011, the leadership of their CEO - John Chambers - resulted in a 31.4% drop in stock value. For this stellar performance the board awarded him with total compensation of $18,871,875. That's right - he was paid almost 19 million dollars for reducing the company's value by nearly 1/3 in one year.

    I'm a lifelong conservative, an engineering manager, an MBA, and I work for a large corporation that everyone knows, so I understand the importance of compensating leaders for outstanding performance. What I don't understand is compensating them for miserable, shameful failure. And it's not just Cisco Systems. This bullsh!t is pervasive. Want some more examples?

    -Gary
     
  10. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    No, I just remember reading about it in the local newspaper or WSJ.

    But give me two minutes and I'll find a link on that one or another one just like it. Sit tight...

    -Gary
     
  11. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    That didn't take long. Chambers was 1st on the list, and there's seven more in this one article alone.

    -Gary
     
  12. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    "Now, the government jobs pay higher than similar private sector employment."

    bull$hit....I have yet to see any of the administrative folks in government make more than the admin folks who work for the gov't contractors (private sector). I also work side by side with gov't contractors (all are veterans from Iraq/Afghanistan) and they went the contractor route because the gov't salary offering was too low and they get comparable benefits to gov't employees.
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A question for those defending these high CEO compensation packages...

    You claim it takes money to hire the best.

    So why do the ones who run their company into the ground and get fired get a golden parachute with millions of dollars?
     
  14. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Seems like its time for the share holders to revolt and hire an attorney to represent them at the board meetings. Besides over paying the executives they also have stolen our dividends!

    Joe
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    BTW, we had a company here a couple years back lay off workers for most of December because they supposedly could not afford to pay their wages.

    The next thing ya know they're paying bonuses to their upper management.

    And the amount in bonuses paid happened to be the amount of saved payroll.

    Scrooge is alive and well.

    Merry Friggin' Christmas.
     
  16. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Gary.......You could have got a notarized statement from God himself and some of these people would say it wasn't from a very creditable source of information.
     
  17. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Likes-to-shoot: The source doesn't matter here -- people can look it up anywhere they want. It's in a hundred newspapers.

    ALSO... You guys are missing something important with respect to the Boards of Directors and how they actually work. These are often thinly veiled Good Ol' Boys networks. They vote-in compensation packages for people who are friends, or friends of friends, and will later have the favor returned quid pro quo. e.g. I vote you a gravy deal and then later you vote me one. It's like Democrats and unions -- they're on both sides of the negotiating table and the taxpayers get shafted. In big corporations they disguise the underhandedness of it and get around legal problems and the easily duped by using stock options and other trickery, but it's clearly an inside sweetheart deal in many cases. Hell, for years they were legally allowed to monkey around with the dates on stock options just to make them turn out magnificently lucrative. A CEO would be rewarded for increases in stock value during times when he hadn't even work for the company.

    What's amazing is how many of my Conservative friends defend this bullsh!t of FAILING (notice I said failing) CEOs making 300-500 times what the average company employee makes. They're the same one's who talk about Reagan's income tax policies without having ever looked-up the rates for the eight years when he was in office. Being a Conservative or a Republican doesn't mean you must defend the indefensible. Wrong is wrong, period.

    -Gary
     
  18. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Since some people make more than they "should", the answer is to start a new cabinet level department- the Department of Fairness, which will determine what everybody in the country makes. They will set the wage rate for everybody in the country so everything is "fair" for all. It will be headed by Nancy Pelosi, who is an expert on fairness. Problem solved and the new department will only cost 2 billion per year, a small price to be paid for fairness.
     
  19. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    I'm a Libertarian, so truthfully it's extremely hard not to be a hypocrite here. I wish people simply had morals like before our generation f'd everything up. There used to be some things called shame and consequences. I guess the only new laws I'd want would be to make the income tax policy more simple/fair and remove the hocus-pocus corporations use to conceal executive compensation and the method by which it is determined. But then again, I haven't put enough thought into the subject to propose any specific new laws.

    But like I said, wrong is wrong and it doesn't take much thought to know that a CEO who runs his company into the ground should not be allowed to "earn" 300-500 times more than the average employee while doing it. People who get away with this should at least feel the need to wear a kevlar vest when out in public.

    -Gary
     
  20. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Years ago an old guy told me one of the worst things to happen to this country was mutual funds. Before mutual funds investors invested in a certain company and they had a stake in that company. The investors of that company followed the company and it's products, read the annual reports and some even went to shareholder meetings.

    Now they put the money with fund managers and they don't care or even know what companies the fund is invested in. The fund managers are only as good as their next quarter. The fund managers vote the funds shares at stock meetings and all they care about is performance. They don't care how much the CEO gets paid, it's not their money. just turn in a good quarter, and make my fund look good.

    It's also incestuous. The big fund managers went to the same schools as the CEOs, they belong to the same country club. They ride the same train into Manhattan and live in the same town in Connecticut .

    I own stock in a lot of different public companies, if you read the annual report, you see the same people on board after board of large public corporations. They take care of their own.

    The board of directors of these companies don’t look after the investors, they take care of themselves first, shareholders second.

    I own stock in Exxon. When Lee Raymond retired as president of XOM his retirement package was reported to be between 350 to 400 million! I made money off of my Exxon stock, but my God didn’t anybody on that board raise an eyebrow about that amount? You tell me they couldn’t have gotten that amount down a little bit? Would he have starved if his retirement package was a 1/3 of that?? Like I say, the board doesn’t do anything to protect the shareholder.

    Now saying that - I, in no way think the government should be involved in saying what a company pays it’s CEO.

    The “Kardashian’s” made over 65 million last year. It’s a sick world, but I don’t know what to do about it, but I know the government isn’t going to fix it.
     
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