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Wads not opening up

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BigFang, Apr 21, 2010.

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  1. BigFang

    BigFang TS Member

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    We are getting toward the end of my kids' trap season for school. One of my son's classmates came out last weekend, and we went out and shot some targets to show him what trap shooting was about. He had shot some before, and was hitting as many as my kids were - which made me feel good for him, and bad for my kids, who have had 6 weeks of practice.
    Anyway, as we were picking up the unbroken targets, I found several wads that we had shot. The wads are molded with connectors between the slits, as some type of controlled opening system (?). None of the wads had all 4 petals opened up, one had 1 petal released, and some had none of the 4 slits released. This is a major concern to me, as I had always thought that the petals needed to fold back to slow the shotcup/wad evenly, release the shot column, and not distort the pattern. My opinion of these wads is that they are doing a dis-service to my young shooters by giving inconsistent patterns by tipping and/or not properly releasing the shot charge on the way to the target.

    These are factory shells, sold as Target Loads, but they are a brand that I had not heard of until we bought them with the club order. I will post the brand if it is relavent to any other shooters. My main question is this - Am I justified in contacting the manufacturer or supplier with my concerns and ask for some type of resolve, i.e. exchange any unused shells, refund or discount on next purchase, any other ideas?

    Thanks for your help. I have been watching this forum for a while, and enjoy the information and conversation.

    Todd F.
     
  2. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Todd, I would be interested in knowing the name of the shells you bought. I have shot alot of Rio's and Keman's over the last few years and both of these shells have the exact same type of wad you mentioned above. Even if it was one of these shells, I have shot good scores with the above shells, so I'm not to worried about it. I am curious though. Todd, I would not be to overly worried about those wads if I were you. These are very good target loads and many shooters have won with them. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  3. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    Herters made a long range unslit wad and I still have a couple 1000 they work for the long range "fence" loads. It dont seem to do anything to patter but have had several go through the pattern paper at 40yds
     
  4. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Horse Puckey !! The shot is out of the wad a few inches from the muzzle.
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    These 5 different photos of wads/shot seem to confirm EuroJoe's Horse Pelosi statement!

    ricks1, would you weigh a couple of those old wads and post the numbers here? I loaded a few of those years ago and remembered them as being a lot heavier than most other wads I've tried. Upper range of 50 grains or so?

    Thanks. Hap
     
  6. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    Without pattern testing, any supposition is mere speculation.
     
  7. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Not really Hap. We see how a wad is suppose to work.

    We now need some high speed photos of a wad that only one petal folds back to see if it has any effect on the release of the shot.

    Lacking high speed camera(s) I guess Bob_K's comment on patterning a bunch where the wad can be recovered and analyzed along with the pattern/POI would be the way to proceed.

    Jason
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Jason, till someone does the high speed testing and proves that getting one pedal folded back is detrimental to a shot pattern, I'll rely on the above to make my call.

    The weight difference between the wad/shot and aerodynamics says the heavier shot pellets rule. The rings that Ljutic cuts into the barrels end is sorta like tits on a boar hog and about as useful in my view. The mass is exiting at approx. 800 MPH?

    Hap
     
  9. BigFang

    BigFang TS Member

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    Yes, the shells that I am questioning are Rio's. They are a Royal Blue box, and Royal Blue hulls.

    I have reloaded for about 25 years. I have reloaded the Ranger wads from Ballistic Products and CSB Steel Shot wads, both of which were solid wads that the buyer was supposed to split to his own situation. In theory, 6 slits/petals would provide more open patterns, while only 2 slits would make a tighter pattern. They always advised at least 2 slits so that the shotcup would release from the shot column.
     
  10. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    B&P wads, specifically the Z21 Trap Commander has pedals that are joined together. According to their data the pedals open. I one of my reloading books it says that you should cut the petals apart from each other for better patterns because they don't always open. Who knows!! Dave T.
     
  11. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Ya, but do they rotate?

    ss
     
  12. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    I shoot the blue Rio 1 oz. load and have patterned them,they pattern much more uniform in my DT-10 than either the top gun or gun club 1 oz.load.Jerry
     
  13. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    The wad used in the Rio shell is probably a Gualandi which is made in Italy. All of the Gualandi wads have an attachment between the petals. This prevents a folded petal when the wad is inserted.

    I have used many different Gualandi wads including the Z21 Trap Commander. They load well (straight wall hulls only) and perform great.

    Jim Skeel
     
  14. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Did the birds open up?

    All that matters.
     
  15. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Todd,

    Our high school team shoots these shells exclusively. Our best shooter shoots reloads for practice and RIOs for competition. His scores are consisent between the two. I'll go out an check our field for wads to see if the petals are opening or not.

    Tom
     
  16. capvan

    capvan Active Member

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    I think that everyone is missing the real question and that is what the effect is using 7 1/2's Vs. 8's. Only when this is is answered can the real question be addressed...

    Capvan
     
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