1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

WAD/RELOADING ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by isuremissalot, Nov 19, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. isuremissalot

    isuremissalot TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    I have some old Pattern Control Wads, they say 12GA Rem Length for use in target loads with 1 1/8 oz shot, they are white in color. Made by United Cartride Company, Casa Grande, Arizonia. I have tried to use them with 1 1/16 oz of shot, 17 grs Red Dot in STS Case and I end up with a serverly sunken crimp (basically no crimp). They appear to be .250-.300" shorter then a normal 1 1/8 wad. My dad gave them to me I have 3000+ that I would like to use for practice. Any loading information or tips on how to make them work would be welcomed. Thanks Randy H
     
  2. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    If these are made like a normal plastic wad it sounds like they may be for a 1-1/4 ounce shot charge. Some PC wads did have a post sticking up in the bottom of the shot cup. It wad disigned to spread the pattern. You may want to consider using a 1/4 inch 20 gauge felt filler wad in the bottom of the shot cut to get the height up where you need it. But as always, use a reputable source such as Lyman shotshell handbooks for your information, not mine or anyone else's from a site such as this. The Lyman 4th edition does have some information on PC wads in different loads.
     
  3. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    Remington cases of that era had less internal capacity than STS hulls. Your easisest solution to use them up would probably be as OldRem says above.
     
  4. Jerseyshooter

    Jerseyshooter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    164
    Another option rather than cutting out felt spacers might be cheerios or unpopped popcorn. Recent thread discussed using these as "filler" in the bottom of the wad cup to take up space for better crimps. I have not tried it so cannot confirm or deny.....but it makes perfect and reasonable sense.
     
  5. Jerseyshooter

    Jerseyshooter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    164
    Another option rather than cutting out felt spacers might be cheerios or unpopped popcorn. Recent thread discussed using these as "filler" in the bottom of the wad cup to take up space for better crimps. I have not tried it so cannot confirm or deny.....but it makes perfect and reasonable sense.
     
  6. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    No need to cut any spacers out of anything, most of the older loaders are familiar with the old Alcan Feltan-Bluestread wads, normally called felt wads. Winchester made a tan colored wad they just called molded fiber wads. Twenty gauge over shot wads in different thickness can also be used. I am not sure who would want to mess with counting out kernals of pop corn of assorted sizes to get the height right for 3,000 plus shells, when you can stick one filler wad in the shot cup and push it down with the filler tube and be done with it. I am sure I am not the only one that still has this kind of older reloading stuff still lying around. I repeat again, use a reliable source such as Lyman for your information.
     
  7. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Ikey:

    I agree, that is what I would do.

    However, I believe the question was not whether to throw them away or not, but how he might be able to use them. Maybe throwing away $50 plus worth of wads is not an option for him.
     
  8. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Try them in a AA hull with the 1 1/8 shot drop. They should crimp fine.
     
  9. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    If they are what I'm thinking they are, there are no currently manufactured hulls that would be compatible with those wads for a 1 1/8 oz load. They were probably made for the older Remington "Target" Hulls with a higher base wad. They are no longer manufactured. Due to the lack of data and compatible components, you would be best served if you obtain wads that are current and have data to support them. Any concoction using these old wads would be ill advised, unless you have the resources or wish to spend the money to have a lab do some velocity and pressure testing. Most likely, any data you find for these would be using obsolete components as well, like the old 57 style primers. You'd be better off selling them to someone that might have the rest of the obsolete stuff to use them. Use the money towards some current stuff that might be listed in the available published data.
     
  10. isuremissalot

    isuremissalot TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks for the replys. I had thought of using an over powder wad or a 20ga card wad. I was hoping that there was a solution that didn't require the extra step. I will buy new wads and dispose of these. Thanks again. Randy
     
  11. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Before you throw the baby out with the bath water you may want to look at the latest edition (2008) of the Alliant reloading guide.

    I don't know what Quack Shot calls older, but Remington came out with the RXP Target hull in the early 1970's. That case was, I believe, the first one piece hull that Remington made. It used the Remington *97 primer or the Remington 209T (which Remington sold for a while), and both are 209 primers. That case has the same characteristics as the Gun Club and the STS case now being produced today, and Alliant does list all three cases together on their loading data sheet.

    There is a 1-1/8th ounce load in the new Alliant loading guide for a red PC wad using current primers and powder in the cases mentioned above. You may want to check with the people who produce the powder to see if the load works with your PC wads before you throw them away.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    OldRemFan

    These are NOT the PC wads made today, that you are referring to. They are an older version made for a hull that has not been manufacturered in a LONG time. If there isn't a zip code in the address on the bag, it's probably been awhile since they sold them.

    The High Base Remington Target hulls pre-date the RXP, if memory serves me correctly. They used a smaller diameter primer as well (57*). The RXP is virtually identical in dimensions to the STS, Gun Club, Nitro, etc. If these are the wads I am thinking of, they are designed for the older target hull. Why would the wads mysteriously work in an RXP hull if they didn't in the STS hull of the same dimensions? They can probably be used for 1 1/4 oz loads or something in that category, but doing so is done without any data to support it. They will NOT work for a 1 1/8 oz load in a tapered hull, unless you use a filler. That is also done without reliable data to support it. It's best to find someone that can use them, due to a supply of older components and data to support them.

    Find an older version (1 or 2) of the Lyman Shotshell handbook and you'll probably see the hull illustrated there. They were one of the first "Plastic" offerings from Remington, if not, THE first.

    These wads would be a similar situation to the old Winchester WAA12R, which was used in older paper hulls for 1 1/8 oz. They are used today with larger payloads, since they are too short for 1 1/8 oz loads in current hulls.

    Now you know what Quack Shot calls "Older".
     
  13. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Quack

    There was a target case made by Remington and Peters that was listed in Lymans First edition. It was called the All-American Target. It was a straight walled case with a two piece hull, but it also used the Rem *97 primer which is a 209 Primer. The old style Remington target before that was a 3 piece hull with a higher base wad that was clear platic molded over an asbestos like material, and the Lyman ist edition manual shows that hull also used a 209 primer. In my comments I stated that I thought the RXP hull was the first one piece target hull that Remington came out with and that hull is shown in the Lyman #2 manual. I do have all the Lyman manuals for reference. I can't seem to find where they determine how old the PC wads are that are in question here. In fact I haven't found any reference to a white PC wad in any of Lyman's manuals. I would like to know which manual that is in so I will know where to look next time.
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,003
    OldRemFan

    That's exactly the point. No Data, no idea what they were used for, and a poor fit in modern hulls. Seems like a no brainer to me. I remember seeing those wads, or ones very similar, with data supplied by the wad manufacturer or one of the other powder or reloader manufacturers. It was for an older style Remington hull with the odd sized primer. They were for 1 1/8 oz loads in a high base hull. Somehow you failed to understand I was talking about the hull possibly being listed in the Lyman manual. I doubt you'll find the wads listed. Re-Read my previous post.
     
  15. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Before these wads are written off you might want to check with Downrange. It appears these wads were originally made in Gary, South Dakota, and a member of this site (solechicken) was a company rep at the time when they were located in Arizona. Downrange apparently ended up with the company. That person might provide some good information to anyone who may happen to have these wads on hand. He states they were made of top quality plastic, and he was still using them in Win AA hulls for a 1-1/8 ounce load. These have been discussed before on this site under a posting of Pattern Control wads, in Sept of 2008.
     
  16. Dave P

    Dave P TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,512
    Location:
    Canton, Il.
    For that few of wads why worry about it. Just throw them in the recycle bin.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

do the old red pattern control wads use the same data as the new

,
gualandi cs 12 wad load data for remington nitro shotshell
,
gualandi shotgun wads
,
pc white wads
,
wad length for peters shotshell
,
white pc wads