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wad height for handicap loads

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ColBuckShot, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    I'm a little confused as usual. In order to make a handicap load ex. Win AA hulls, Win 209, 1 1/8 oz and Green Dot.
    What height of wad is needed, the WWAA12(white) is a bit to high to crimp flush it seems. Even following the recommended amount of powder approx 20 gr.
    Seems i need a wad with the space shorter between base and cup. Have I missed some other varible. What wad should I be using.
     
  2. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Just use the one that the recipe calls for! I only know of a couple of circumstances where wad substitutions had to be made in order to get a good crimp. These were ok'd buy the powder manufacturer before I did it. Always use the book!

    ec90t
     
  3. ColBuckShot

    ColBuckShot TS Member

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    I am following the Alliant recommendations, not sure why the crimp seems domed or the sides tend to crese in slightly under crimping presure.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    AA hulls can sometimes be tricky. The inner base will catch the wads base preventing a complete insertion. Other than that I have no idea. Hap
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    You are using the correct components. Your second post indicated that the "sides tend to crease". Are you referring to a ring in the case that appears a bit above the brass? Such a crease or ring will shorten the case. If this is what is happening, you need to make sure you are seating the wad firmly against the powder with something like 5 pounds of pressure. Then, slightly turn the crimp starter up a bit along with the crimper and crimp finishing station. Your problem is possibly in the press and not the components.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Cutcast

    Cutcast TS Member

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    I wrote an article titled, "It may not be your fault" that addresses the crimping problem. If you look at the volume of either the new or old style AA hull, anything more than about 16 grains of a given powder with an ounce and 1/8 of shot and a white AA wad will not crimp and will dome.

    I called a powder manufacturer who admitted that in order to get certain components into certain shells they had to crush the wads by using more wad pressure than is recommended in any books. If you don't believe me take a brand new AA shell and cut it open. You will find that the middle portion of the wad is compressed a little to compensate for the doaming problem. ( I should not have used the word crushed)

    OK, I just realized that the AA shell that I cut open was 20 years old and the wad had probably taken a set so that it would retain it's compressed shape. PatI is correct,. by adjusting the crimp start and the final crimp settings it will work. Also, if you increase the wad pressure to 30 to 40 lbs. or so it will work. The problem is that if you decide to change the wad, the powder and the hull you'll have to re-adjust. And, the adjusting is tricky.
    So, the bottom line is that if you can find a combination that shoots well and patterns well You should stick with it.

    A lot of us keep monkeying around with everything...which is fun. But we wind up with a 5 gallon bucket of deformed re-loads.That's why we're seeing a lot of shell cutters on the market, now. As soon as I can afford to buy a brand new box of AA shells, I'll cut one open. I wonder if the ding dong who got the 5000 shells from Wallmart at half price has any AA's. I have gotten a lot of great information from you guys at TS.com. Keep up the good work!
     
  7. IM390

    IM390 Member

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    Mec recommends 40 lbs of pressure when using new AA hulls. Downrange Mfg. literature says their wads "may work as both 1 1/8 oz or 1 ounce loads in some cases." Downrange has started to put bevel edges on the powder cups of their wads to fit into AA hulls easier. The 12S3 wads "may not crimp properly" according to Federal, so "you may have to substitute" the SO wad. I see that there are many types of hulls and wads and no one keeps up with all the changes. That is a good reason why to not use a recipe that is 20 years old.
     
  8. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    You should have no problem getting 20 grains of Green Dot, 1 1/8 oz of shot, and a WAA12 wad into a new AA hull. Your press isn't set up right. Increase wad pressure to 30 to 40 lbs, increase crimp start so that the opening at the top of the hull is about the size of a pencil eraser, use a factory shell to set the final crimp to the proper depth.

    ~Michael
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Michael/cutcast- I get nice reloads with 20 gr of Green Dot by only placing a light wad pressure to insure that the wad is against the powder, raising the crimp starter and raising the crimping and final taper dies. For fun, I just cut open two factory AA Super Handicap shells and two 1 1/8 red hulls. None of them had crushed wads.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. wopahoe

    wopahoe Member

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    Had the same problem. Replace white AA wad 1 1/8 oz With yellow AA wad 1 1/4 oz
    You'll find the yellow wad is aprox. 1/16" shorter and will work just fine. No problem with replacing a win. wad with a win. wad. Shot 19 grs of green dot for years using yellow wad in my hdcp loads. With 18 grs green dot, I used the white AA wad and it worked just fine like it was supposed to. Before all you guys start telling about sub. componets, I replaced a win. wad with a win. wad and I also have a powder scale that weighs in grains and I weighed my componet changes. I also shot that very same load for 10 years in a Perazzi and a k-80.All I know it worked for me.Ron Piro
     
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