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Voted with my wallet today - new toy....

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Dec 28, 2012.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I already have a Browning Buckmark 5.5" Field that Mike Stannard of Tornado Technologies threaded (and have previously posted pics of). But it's going to wind up with some sort of optic sight on it.

    Wanted another threaded .22 with iron sights as a suppressor host for quiet plinking and target practice.

    Another reason is that the proposed legislation bans threaded barrels on handguns, so this clearly sporting pistol would become an assault weapon. Go figure.

    Went to my friend's gunshop today and he had one of the Lipsey's Threaded Buckmark Campers, formerly known as the Buckmark Whisper. Figured it was a sign and bought it.

    Slapped my Bowers USS suppressor on it and gave it a quick test fire. Both work great. The USS can be disassembled for cleaning, and it is rated for .22 LR, .22 WMRF, .17 HMR and 5.7x28 FN.

    Barrels are cheap for these guns. Thinking about getting an extra and having my friend Mike shorten it so the threads clear the front of the frame. Barrels interchange easily with a couple of allen wrenches.

    Midway, Brownells and Midwest Gun Works carry Buckmark parts. I've going to pick up a target trigger for it. The target trigger has an overtravel screw and only costs about $10. Dunno if I'll flip the hammer spring or will install a target spring. These are simple, cheap mods that help with accuracy.

    Dunno what my next projects are going to be. Trying to get some basic sporting semi-autos I want to suppress ahead of a possible ban, since common obviously sporting guns are caught up in this hysterical knee jerk reaction hogwash. It's a sick commentary on our rights bashing society when you can't thread the barrel on even a 10-22.

    Browning Buckmark Camper

    Tornado Technologies barrel threading

    Bower's catalog, including USS Suppressor
     
  2. Mike K P

    Mike K P Member

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    Brian, I opened this thread expecting to see a really nice 1100 or 1187! But, that's pretty nice! Mike.
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    So are you in the mafia? What are you gonna do with that illegal thing? What are you hiding from? What could you possibly need that for?


    I'm being 548 of course.

    I like it Brian. Looks like a hoot to shoot.
     
  4. Simon Engraving

    Simon Engraving Active Member

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    i like the way brian voted. very nice quiet plinker. the optics r like icing on the cake.the thinking ahead idea is probably a smart move also. enjoy howard
     
  5. Kemper

    Kemper Active Member

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    Nice!
     
  6. mooster1223

    mooster1223 Member

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    Just chop that barrel back to 4", thread it and re drill and tap for the front sight. That'll keep the high velocity bulk ammo sub sonic. Suppressed 22's are filthy but, they're a hoot!
     
  7. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    I AM IN LUST!
    Jerry Lewis
     
  8. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    nice indeed! but, does that uss really work as well on a 5.7 at 2400 fps just as well as it does on a .22 at 900 fps?
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    quartering, no, it won't. No suppressor is going to completely suppress supersonic ammunition. A supersonic bullet is going to make a sonic boom, or crack, that is about as loud as the muzzle report of an unsuppressed .22 LR from a rifle.

    So what it will do for the .22 WMRF, .17 HMR or the 5.7 FN is reduce the sound to that of a .22 LR at the most. I suspect a 5.7 is still going to be a little louder than that.

    I plan on building some sort of .17 HMR suppressor host for the USS suppressor. I dunno yet what I want. Might wind up with a Savage bolt action in a custom stock.
     
  10. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Nice looking rig, Brian.

    Makes me wish I didn't live in Minnesota!

    Kiv
     
  11. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Brian,

    How important is the ID of the suppressor being a relevant close fit to the bullet OD for performance. Basically I'm asking if the ID of the suppressor has more clearance compared to the OD of the bullet does the suppressor performance start to fail or is that all proprietary to the manufacture?
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    tigman46, I ordered a bunch of Buckmark parts from Midwest Gun Works in early December. Shipping was not as fast as Brownells, but no complaints. They have a pretty good selection of parts. I've also ordered Buckmark parts from Brownells and Midway.

    What's really cool is if someone wants to make a custom Buckmark there are plenty of barrels and slides in black or nickel finish, as well as the safety and slide release. There are also different sights and sight bases, grips, etc. The target trigger is only about $10. And making a spare parts kit with some springs, screws, buffer, etc., is not all that expensive. You can even have extra barrels since they interchange easily with a couple of allen wrenches.
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    How does one own a supressed handgun legally? Are these considered type III firearms? I always figured those would be neat for around the yard plinking etc. (Asking about in the USA laws, is it state by state or???)

    Ironically, in England, quiet rounds of ammo are encouraged. Reduces noise pollution. And people who own firearms are under suspicion if they DON'T buy ammunition on a regular basis. Otherwise, why own the firearm? And the barrels have the serial number, (so I'm told), not the actions. And come to think of it, they like their coffee cold and beer warm. And they drive on the wrong side of the road.

    No wonder they encourage quiet guns. Not all bad...
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There are several countries where a suppressor is considered good manners and being a good neighbor.

    Here, without getting too technical, the process for owning a suppressor is as follows:

    First, while lawful under federal law, you have to live in one of the states that allowed ownership of a suppressor, as well as no local laws against it either.

    Then, you purchase your suppressor from a person or company in your state with a federal license for making or selling firearms (including suppressors) falling under the 1934 National Firearms Act. This entity will also be the receiving end of transfers coming in from out of state, if you suppressor is not already in state.

    You now fill out BATF Form 4, in duplicate, and affix a passport photo of yourself to each. Generally your dealer will help you with the form.

    You also need to supply two fingerprint cards. Typically you'll have a local law enforcement agency process the fingerprint cards, but the cards need to have BATF stamped on them, not the local law enforcement agency. Your dealer should have the proper cards. Use of the wrong card will get your application rejected. You'll need two.

    You also need a CLEO sign off. CLEO is Chief Law Enforcement Official. In short, your police chief or sheriff will sign the form, which essentially means that he or she does not know of any reason you should be denied an NFA firearm, and that it is lawful to own one in your area. This is where a lot of people get stopped stone cold because some CLEOs refuse to sign, with the intention of making the lack of a signature into a de facto ban.

    Once your paperwork is in order (two Form 4's, with a passport photo on each, with a CLEO signoff on each, with a fingerprint card each), generally your dealer will handle sending them to BATF.

    Your paperwork now goes to the bottom of the stack for a background check. This is NOT a NICS check. The FBI runs your fingerprints, while BATF checks into your records. This takes time, and BATF is swamped with a lot of these transfers. My transfer took nine months to process, and it's worse now. I doubt we will see the days of 45 to 60 day approvals ever again. Also, BATF wants every i dotted and every t crossed. I'm not kidding. Forms have been sent back for the smallest error.

    This is why, if you're a novice, it's best to let a competent dealer help you. Some charge to handle these forms for you, and frankly it's money well spent.

    Your approved form will be sent back to the dealer. Your dealer will inform you of the arrival of the forms. At that point you can pick up your suppressor (or machinegun, short barreled shotgun, etc.

    Your approved form will have a tax stamp affixed to it. This is literally what it says, a stamp like a postage stamp. For a suppressor it will have a $200 value on it. BATF will write the serial number of your suppressor on the stamp. The approved form is one of the two you submitted. you should get this photo copied two-sided full size, then get the copy laminated (do not laminate the original). There is some debate whether the copy can be color or not, because technically it's forgery to make a 1:1 color copy of currency or a tax stamp. My suggestion is to make a B&W copy. Put the original somewhere safe. The copy needs to be with the suppressor any time it leaves the house with you.

    There is debate whether local law enforcement is entitled to see your form, because technically it is a private tax document between you and the federal government. I know a handful of people have gotten away with refusing to show the form. But keep this in mind.. In many states it is technically illegal to own a suppressor BUT having the approved federal form is an AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE that you are authorized to own it. Oregon is one such state.

    It's a pain sometimes carrying around the full size copies, especially when they are laminated. I made credit card sized double sided copies and laminated them. I now have four NFA firearms and suppressors, so I carry all four wallet size copies in my wallet at all times. This ensures I will never be caught in the field without a form on me.

    If you lose the original, you are SOL. Treat it like irreplaceable gold.

    The process above does not take into account corporate transfers or trusts. Those can be the topic for another conversation.
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    NFA devices cannot be loaned. Must be under the direct control of the owner.
     
  16. 548

    548 Guest

    Can you off load it to any FFL? Say you want to trade the gun and suppressor off, can it be done at any FFL or only through the suppressor dealer.
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    548, there is a limited circumstance in which an ordinary FFL can obtain a suppressor for their own inventory directly from an out of state SOT. The suppressor is for their personal use, not for business inventory sales. There may be some other limited circumstance I am not aware of.

    If YOU want to obtain a suppressor, you cannot do this via a regular FFL. I mentioned an SOT above. That stands for Special Occupation Taxpayer, which is BATF shorthand for a Class 1 importer, Class 2 manufacturer-dealer or Class 3 dealer in NFA firearms. Most individuals purchasing an NFA firearm or suppressor will be dealing with a Class 2 manufacturer-dealer or Class 3 dealer in NFA firearms. In my case my transfers were all done by Class 2 manufacturers.

    Edit: I reread your question. It is possible for you as owner of, say, a suppressor to sell the suppressor to another private individual PROVIDED that individual resides in your state. The process I outlined above for obtaining a tax stamp must be followed, and you must retain possession of the item until the tax stamp comes back from BATF. You do NOT do this through an ordinary FFL dealer. You do it individual to individual. An individual who lives out of state requires a transfer from individual to SOT to SOT to individual. (Correction, it is possible for an individual to transfer directly to an SOT in another state. But many SOTs will not do that.)

    While we are at it, if you die your estate will handle your NFA firearms and devices. These can transfer to your heirs free but they MUST still have the paperwork done. Transfer is done via a Form 5. (The proposed new AW ban making semi-autos NFA apparently forbids any transfer, so apparently semi-autos have to be surrendered to BATF for destruction upon your death, while machineguns do not. Go figure.)

    Wikipedia has a fairly decent writeup on NFA. The problem is this is a complex issue because of the laws involved, and there are mountains of clarification letters from BATF Tech Branch on what is or isn't allowed. It is very easy to get tripped up on technicalities. Wikipedia barely scratches the surface on this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

    ----------

    Edit - One other thing I ought to mention. Because the legalities are based upon interstate transfer of NFA firearms and devices, you generally have to obtain BATF permission in writing in advance of crossing a state line with a machinegun, etc. Suppressors are exempt from this. I'm not sure about the other types of NFA. I think AOWs may also be exempt. And, of course, the state you are crossing to must allow private ownership of these items as well.

    For example, I can take my suppressor from Oregon to Washington state without needing to get permission in writing.

    If I owned one, I could take a machinegun from Oregon to Idaho with written permission from BATF.

    I could not take a machinegun from Oregon to Washington, because I cannot lawfully own one in Washington.

    By written permission, I mean a form you submit and get approved by BATF.

    One caveat - I do not claim to be an expert on this subject. I'm just relating situations I have done or am familiar with. Work with a reputable SOT and assume nothing.
     
  18. CharlieAMA

    CharlieAMA TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Cool looking gun Brian, hope you enjoy it.
     
  19. 548

    548 Guest

    Thanks.

    Sounds like a major pain in the ass for a guy like me who trades often and likes to be liquid.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed a pain to jump through those hoops. Plus you take a bath on the $200 tax stamp.

    But, keep in mind that folks in anti-gun states like New Jersey have to jump through similar hoops just to own an ordinary firearm.
     
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