1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Voice Call Speaker Placement/Causing bad pulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Oct 28, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    When Voice callers were first installed I was getting different pulls. I then moved the speakers directly in front of me/ aimed the speaker toward my mouth.
    Instructions said not to have your arm between you and the speaker, in other words if you are right hand shooter do not place the speaker to the right as you now have an OBSTRUCTION of your speaker.

    Put the speaker directly in front of you, and make sure it is not wobbling in the wind, and you will get pulls that are going to be the same everytime.

    I do this every time I change stations, and have not had a problem.

    I have had bad speakers, one was at yhe LasVegas gun club, I had to call 3 times before I got a good pull, but they changed the speaker for the next squad,

    I read on this site I was picking my targets, they were coming out slow.

    It was only on Station #4 on my first trap, I ended up tying for the Handicap Championship, lost in the shootoff, got runnerup.

    You can turn down targets if they are slow, FtF applies here, you are allowed 2
    but have the Speaker Replaced if this is happening to you.

    POSITIONING THE SPEAKER is very important.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,845
    How can the failure-to-fire rule be around for almost a generation and still confuse people as it has on two threads already in just two days?
     
  3. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,128
  4. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,070
    Like I mentioned in another post, most slow pulls are created by a dead speaker or is suffering from an intermittent connection. The dead giveaway is when you call louder and get a target, but it's slow to appear. This means, your louder call is triggering an adjacent speaker which creates a slow pull because your voice has to carry further to the adjacent speaker, it's a time and distance thing. The fact they changed out your speaker in Las Vegas confirms what I'm saying.

    The trap community has settled on three or four types of voice calls and each manufacturer products respond a little differentially to voice commands. The common thread is, louder is not better nor are high pitched, sharp calls or very low soft tones. All systems seem to do best with a long pullll sound, but some will accept a short harsh sound.

    You wiil receive your best pulls when your call travels to the speaker in the shortest and most direct path. You will see a number of shooters who rely on target release timing use a portable belt mounted amplifier and a small clip on mike (Radio Shack). This set up produces the most responsive and consistent target release possible from voice activated system, rain or shine, windy or not.

    Part of your practice routine should include perfecting a call that will give you consistent targets in any situation. Remember, if you or someone has to raise their voice to get a target, chances are. it's equipment not the caller. If this happens, stop shooting and ask for a speaker change out or fix what ever is causing the problem.

    I've watched very good shots who try to labor with equipment malfunctions because they don't want to stop and loose their rhythm, not a good move.

    Surfer
     
  5. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,735
    Location:
    Erie, Pa
    A few years back, I ran a test on speakers at our local club as to response and discovered that I was able to get birds on call with the speaker located as far as three yards in front of me. Not screaming, just calling in normal voice. I will admit that some folks call with different voice levels in their call and the machine sometimes fails to respond the the first level of their voice, hence a so called "slow pull". The newest of our mikes are very responsive. But they do have to hear a "tone" so they can respond with a timely target. Twisting the wire terminal connections seldom help except to create a maintenance problem when it twists the wire joints. As the preceding thread mentioned, If you have a problem, call the trap mechanic.

    Big Jack
     
  6. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    Coral Springs, Florida
    With more clubs using CVR wireless units there are a few basic rules to observe. First make sure the transmitter on the microphone stand is at least 16" from the ground and the back side of the unit is facing the trap house. Second is that placing the trap receiver in the house where the signal has to pass through 8+" of concrete or concrete block is not the best signal path especially if the concrete walls are wet. Putting the receiver on the ground outside the back wall covered by a plastic shield or in a plastic box will solve a lot of issues.


    Eric
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,328
    Location:
    Shawnee, Kansas, USA
    Turning down a slow pull is not the same as a failure to fire.
     
  8. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,734
    "How can the failure-to-fire rule be around for almost a generation and still confuse people as it has on two threads already in just two days?"

    Neil, first you will need to do an analysis to see how many have read the rule book to know there are two different rules, one that covers slow/fast pulls and the other being FTF.

    Its easier to just apply the latter.
     
  9. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,636
    At a club I belong to they have Canterbury V Rs wired & wireless we seem to have better luck with the wired units--that said certain voices or pitch do occasionally have problems. I have discovered that for my call I had to change it a little instead of PULL, sometimes I have to use a very (short) hard sounding call such as POT. As above soft--high pitched women or juniors seem to have the most trouble. We have had them adjusted & they are better but still have their little quirks. So do human pullers some of us (me age 70) don't always hear as well as we did 40 or 50 years ago.

    We are looking into the ERAD systems (have 1 now) they seem to be more user friendly, only thing (drawback) we have encountered so far is remembering to reclaim the mics clipped to the shooters vest or shirt as they are EASY to forget & walk away with one. Ross Puls
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    G.B., study the rule book and you'll know the difference between a FTF and a no target?

    I'm surprised at how many ATA shooters have NO inkling what the rule book says about such simple everyday occurrences?? Lots of scorekeepers too have no idea for the most part! Saw that same thing happen twice just yesterday with two scorekeepers marking a no target as a FTF then had to erase it after being schooled!

    Hap
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,621
    Location:
    Michigan
    Sorry longsh?t if I am scoring and you don't shoot at a target it is a FTF. If it is a slow pull it better be noticible to me and everyone else, then change the speaker or you will get another FTF. Just like 2 bad shells, you better be getting another box or the next time FTF.

    I have started to see some turning down targets and then claiming slow or fast. You had better learn how to use the voice call system. Understanding the delay in the system would be a start.

    Don
     
  12. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,004
    Location:
    GEORGIA
    Ross,

    We're going to have to put a shock collar on the shooters with the ERADs' so if they try to leave the fields with it they get a little "9 volt reminder"

    LOL

    Dave
     
  13. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    527
    "This means, your louder call is triggering an adjacent speaker which creates a slow pull because your voice has to carry further to the adjacent speaker, it's a time and distance thing."

    lets see 1126fps (about) and distance between post at 16yds 9ft..

    0.0079928952042628774422735346358792 seconds is the time it takes for sound to travel to the next speaker....

    8 Thousands of a second....

    now tell me that is a reason for a slow pull...I think NOT...Grubby
     
  14. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,687
    daddiooo - magic fence might be more comical:)

    FRedmon

    You get my invite for the chatroom?
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,070
    Grubby Jack,
    There's another post here along with this one discussing slow pulls.

    Look for the post titled "Does a slow/fast pull still exist?" Scroll down to mag@ventriloquestinc.com and see what Michael Goines has to say about my comments. I believe Michael is the remote voice ativated control business and is well versed how sound waves behave and how they cause a time delay.

    Surfer
     
  16. bigben

    bigben Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    559
    Grubby and all, the culprit is when the person on front of you and even a a person in front of him, when the ejector snaps, it will block the call resulting in a really slow pull, it seems the worst offenders are brownings and k-80's the resonance of the those ejector snap plays havoc with the voice activated speakers. We have made a study of this and it is very evident! check it out yourself, you will be very much surprised! incinerate em!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.