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Voice Call delay ???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Doubles Xpert, Apr 4, 2011.

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  1. Doubles Xpert

    Doubles Xpert Member

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    I went to a Local Club this weekend in California for the Winter chain shoot. The Club shall remain nameless. I heard several of the "big guns" saying that they need to fix the delay in trap #4. One of the traps has a terrible delay. The Delay seemed to be between 1/2 to 3/4 of a second from the time you called until the target came out. This is with Electronic Voice call. When I asked the Club management about it, I was told that machine has been rebuilt twice and It's not that bad, we just need to learn to shoot it. One of the former All American shooters pull out after the 6th shot on his singles and said he would never go back until the delay has been properly fixed. I am not a member of this Club But Love to shoot registerd targets there or used to. I'm just trying to get a feel for other opinions about delays and also wondering if I'm being a hard a$$ not wanting to go back till it's fixed proper or is it acceptable as the managment says it is. It's a pat trap with a Cantibury Voice Release system. Ideas ??

    Herky Jerky...Dbls
     
  2. fritzi93

    fritzi93 TS Member

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    On a PAT, one can adjust the stop position of the throw arm on the brake. Forward = less delay, back = more delay. Surely whoever maintains those machines knows that, however.

    A half second is a lot, probably something else besides the brake setting but I dunno what. I'll be interested in any ideas others may have.
     
  3. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    I think that one second is considered acceptable in trap and skeet. If you have never shot hand pulled targets you should try it sometime. I don't believe any one can really call a 1/2 or 3/4 of a second too long a delay even if you are a "big gun". All the really big guns I have seen know how to handle things like this...thats why they are the big guns.

    Call your target, don't move until you see it, lock your eye on it, move the gun to it and shoot it. Works every time.

    Good luck.
     
  4. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Standard delay on a CVR system is 1/6th of a second. Compared to that a 1/2 or 3/4 second delay seems like forever and can throw your timing off. On the wireless CVR system you can set it throw random release from instant to 1.25 second delay which is a lot of fun and can make you crazy.

    Eric
     
  5. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Lazy pulls and wind affected targets are two of the best things you can encounter to teach you to shoot targets as they are instead of as you wish they would be.

    People who whine about either one are the same people who think the opening day of trout season is what fishing is all about.

    MK
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    A club is a business.

    When you start to lose shooters for whatever reason, time to fix the problem...
     
  7. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    Before the age of electronic pullers we had the trap boys pressing the button after he heard and understood that you called for a target. That was in effect, a 1/2 to 2 second delay, that varied bird to bird. We didn't think anything about it, and lots of shooters ran straights. What is the worst that it affects? A shooter has to hold their gun up for two more seconds? If that throws off a persons score, maybe they have become too pampered. One of the best skeet shooters I know had a random delay box that he plugs in to purposely throw off his timing on the high and low house bird presentation. This is specifically for the purpose of not depending on perfect conditions. He breaks a lot of targets.
     
  8. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    You didn’t say if the problem was the same at all five positions of trap field #4, or just some of them. So the first thing to determine is whether the slow pulls are being caused by the Pat Trap or the Canterbury Voice Release system.

    The first thing I would check is the cold weather adjustment setting. There are two switches on the left side of the trap machine which are mounted on a small bracket. If they are out of adjustment, it can stop the throw arm and cause slow pulls. Carefully loosen the screw that holds them tight. Move the switch bracket by increments of 1/16” to the right (toward the rear of the trap house). This will shorten the throw time. Once the machine begins to cycle (throw more than one bird) back the adjustment off slightly until the cycling condition stops. This may or may not be the problem. A quick call to Charlie at Pat Trap will provide tons of good insight.

    If the trap machine is not the problem, I’d look at the voice release system. Again, I’m not sure if you’re having a problem at all five stations, or just some. Also, also did not say whether the voice release was wired or wireless. If wireless, there are 24 AA batteries that need to be checked with a battery tester. If the system is wired, there can be a number of things causing the problem, such as bad connections or microphones, wires that no longer provide consistent continuity, etc. The list goes on and on. Target Shotguns will go through and refurbish the entire system for about $125.00, which might be money well spent because you will lose business over this situation if the problem is not solved quickly. Anything over 1/6 of a second will aggravate most of your trap shooters to the point where they will leave, and this has become a very fragile business.

    Good luck.

    Jon Reitz
     
  9. rustygun

    rustygun Member

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    2 seconds on a manual pull would be an extremely slow pull. put your gun to your shoulder and call Pull, one thousand, 2 one thousand.
     
  10. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Rustygun,

    I agree ... any puller that had a reaction time anywhere near 2 seconds would be on serious drugs or alcohol!

    You can check the Canterbury system by simply watching the LED on the puller's controller. If you say "pull" and the LED flashes on time, the relay to the trap fired on time. If its slow or delayed, time to check the voice release.

    The vast majority of the time its the trap's brake system set too far back or the switches that are mentioned above.

    If the trap checks out ok, give us a call at Target Shotguns, Inc. 800-684-6329, and we'll help you find the problem.

    Bob Schultz
     
  11. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Well no one has stated the obvious... how about checking that the connecting wire is tightly screwed into the box. Or simply replace the wire. Often these wires get a kink or break. If this doesn't work, change the main pull chord wire and switch. Still not working, replace the speaker. After all of this, replace the box. Fred
     
  12. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Got to side with brownk80 here.

    International skeet has a built in delay that randomly changes from instant to as long as three seconds.

    Double trap has a delay of up to one second.

    If you want to compete internationally, get used to it...
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Berson is on the right track. What happens is when you have a speaker that is not operating or operating poorly, the one on the post next to you fires the trap when it picks up your voice. The time it takes for your voice to travel that extra distance is the delay.

    Been there, done that, got the T shirt. many times.

    Sometimes wiggling the wire helps if it's a connection.

    HM
     
  14. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Could that machine be installed a little lower in the house or could the roof of that house be slightly higher than the rest? Either condition will make it take longer for the target to become visible even if the machine is releasing as quickly as the rest.

    I can recall shooting somewhere where the tables onto which the machines mount had to be lowered for automatic traps to be installed and they were made lower than they should have been. Every target looked and felt like a slow pull but you could hear the machine cycling well before the targets appeared.

    Ed
     
  15. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    If you perceive it as slow or fast then don't shoot. A half second is much too long a delay.
     
  16. Doubles Xpert

    Doubles Xpert Member

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    Thanks for all the input guys...
    Wired System
    Trap Sets at the same height
    House is the same height
    Every post had the delay.
    I checked the Wires, We were getting pulls just really really slow ones... And 2 Seconds per hand pull ? Are you serious ? That puller would have gotten fired at my club HA HA..
     
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