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Visitors Fees

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Cedar Valley, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. Cedar Valley

    Cedar Valley TS Member

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    Hello folks,

    Well, it is that time of year when my club decides whether or not to increase fees, or generate money in other ways. One of the suggestions we are toying with is the application of "Visitor" fees to people off the street.

    We currently welcome visitors and allow them to shoot three times before we ask them to join, but we do allow shooters that are current members of any club (worldwide) to shoot at regular rates. While we would like these folks to join up as well, we have not pushed the issue.

    The problem we are starting to see is that members of other local clubs use our facilities with no intention of joining and we are starting to be busy enough that it is interfering with our own members enjoyment. Have any of you people applied "Visitor" fees at your clubs? If so, what was the feedback and did it help encourage visitors to become members, or did it at least placate existing members that sometime question why they don't let their membership lapse and just come occasionally.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Regards,

    Steve Malcolm
     
  2. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Sounds like your club members can't decide if you want to be "open to the public" or not....

    One OTTP club here charges a non-member "gate fee" of $10, the non-member then pays regular member's prices for targets.

    One non-OTTP club charges a $2 gate fee to non-members on game night.

    Another OTTP club charges $1.50 extra per round (over and above member pricing).


    Charge the non-members enough to make a profit on their rounds, and you won't be as upset when they take up your fields.
     
  3. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Asking a "visitor" to pay for fee's is just like saying we don't want you here.

    As far as people joining another club and getting the same price as the clubs members. What is it they don't like about being a member of that club?

    If you wan't to have a different price for the member and the visitor and let the visitor decide if he/she shoots enough at that club to benefit from the membership.

    Having too many shooters is a good problem to have, but don't screw around to much or you could barely have any!

    ec90t
     
  4. rjdden

    rjdden TS Member

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    Dec 20, 2006
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    I never belonged to a club back in Ill. where I had done most of my shooting. But there was this one we shot at most of the time and they just ignored us as if we were members. A couple of the clubs tried to do this non member thingy and it got shoved up there nose after awhile. They wanted guests of the members to pay the extra shooting fee. The members got to where they said no more. The members were figuring these guests would and could have been perspective members. Rich.(inPeoria,A.Z.)
     
  5. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    A few clubs that I shoot at charge a $15 daily visitor fee. Private clubs and you have to be a guest of a member. We all shoot for the same price.

    Many clubs charge a non-member rate. A $1 or $1.50 difference.

    Many of the member run clubs in this area, have a non-member rate but I don't think its enforced much. It's usually reserved for the local shooter who refuses to join the club...

    For short time visitors, as seen in Florida, Gator has a snowbird membership rate that seems more than fair for those just down for the winter. A pro-rated membership might be the answer for those just staying in the area for two or three months.

    If I was running a club I would most likely charge a flat rate visitor fee, anywhere from $5 and up, depending on what your trying to accomplish and also offer pro-rated memberships.

    I have seen a huge difference between member and non-member rates that almost discourage a one or two time visit, especially at a few clubs in Florida in where the difference is almost criminal, as your paying for a case of targets to shoot 25.
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Green Bay Wisconsin
    lNon members, 1.50 more here. This gets people to join after you tell them 20 rounds pays for their membership.

    HM
     
  7. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    I see no reason a visitor should be able to shoot at member's prices.

    Any Club that I have been to (outside of registered shoots) a visitor pays $1 or $1.50 more tham members.
     
  8. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I know it is almost always ignored, but there is a reason why you may see nonmember pricing issues.

    If your club is exempt as a 501(c)(7) organization, you CANNOT hold yourself out as open to the public. If that came to light, you would lose your tax exemption.

    That is not to say you can't have nonmember income (within the allowed %'s) but you should never advertise or publish anything that indicates you are open to the public. Call them special events or something but don't say you are always "open to the public."

    There are lots of 501(c)(7) clubs out there and just about every one is in violation of the nonmember income rules. Than again, everyone gets away with it so to really enforce the rules would put you out of business; it's a catch-22 for these clubs.
     
  9. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    If there is a member base at the club than anyone who is not a member should pay more whether it be a higher target fee or a daily guest fee and if there is that many coming in to shoot that it is disrupting and making it difficult for members to shoot than limit the times guests can walk in off the street to shoot.

    Just mention to your club that as long as your making a good chunk of cash from off the street guests than the dues for members can stay relatively low and the extra funds can be used to improve the club for the membership.
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    We have Public invite shooting days/events. All fees apply. Only thing unless there is an event Trap,pistol,CMP ect. non members can not use unless with a member. no non members indoors or at outdoor range unless event is going on. All non members must clear space for members ASAP.
     
  11. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Location:
    Blackshear, Georgia
    Why would I pay $200.00 a year membership if John Doe could walk in off the street and shoot for the same price as me? Our members pay $3.50 a round for skeet or trap and nonmembers pay $5.00 a round. Several places I visited in Fl, like Bear Creek charge $12.00 for nonmembers and they are open to the public. I don't remember what it was for members as I've only shot 8 or 10 rounds there. At those prices it is a last resort when I'm in that area. Jackie B.
     
  12. Cedar Valley

    Cedar Valley TS Member

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    Thanks to all who responded. Your input has been very helpful.

    Steve Malcolm
     
  13. dennis (nj)

    dennis (nj) Guest

    We are open to the public and our rates are $3 for members and $4 for non-members . We encourage people to join for $100 one time initiation plus $50 dues per year . At the $1 difference some people won`t join so we are considering raising it to $4.50 or $5 and see if thats enough to get them to join . By being a member , the range duties are divided up amoung the members being 5-6 days a year you will have the duty for 2 trap houses and any member coming to shoot will all help the man on duty . No slackers sitting on their asses . It`s been very good so far , even non-members are helping out pulling and scoring if they are finished with their shooting and even help rap up the cords and clean up afterwards . I don`t think it`s fair to the members of a club to let non-members shoot for members rates if the members are doing all the work in running the club and doing work partys to keep the club in operation .
     
  14. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    A couple of thoughts...

    I would place a restriction on "worldwide" access to bonafide members outside a pre-determined radius of "x" miles from your club to prevent the very issues you're dealing with unless you have a "reciprocal agreement" with clubs within that mileage radius. This would allow you to establish a preferred pricing scheme, but not competing with your actual members - as was said add a buck a round, but still better than public pricing.

    Consider limiting purely public access to a specific day(s). 870 is correct in that you can derive up to 15% of the 35% of additional income from public use of your facility - be careful to watch income - I understand that the Feds are cracking down on 501c7 clubs.

    Consider a multi-tier membership policy - Senior, Shooting, Social etc... each having its own pricing and benefits.

    Jay Spitz
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    My local club makes a profit throwing targets at $3 per round. The more targets we throw, the more profit we make. We do not have anything like a visitors fee. We do not even have a membership fee.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Pat, how is the insurance paid. Do you have any idea how much the insurance is a year. We only have 25 members in what was once a real nice club. It's down to 2 skeet ranges, one trap from 5 skeet 2 trap and two 5 stations with high towers. We have a nice place but can't seem to get many people interested. Jackie B.
     
  17. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Pat ... what are your current costs on targets and how many do you purchase at a time? Just how much of a profit can you be making to be able to pay the insurance, light bill, property taxes and all the other misc expenses from just $3 a round and having no membership dues at all of any sort.
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Profit is there. I do not know the current cost of a box of targets, but if it is $7.50 that leaves $7.50 gross profit per round. We pay all of our utility, insurance and taxes. All labor is volunteer. The volunteer labor is not restricted just to running a shoot. We have built a club house and some trap houses with the volunteer labor.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Pat ... your math dont jive ... if your target cost is $7.50 a box that would make a target cost of 1.50 a round or $6 per 4 rounds of trap and with a target price of $3 a round that would give you a profit of only $6 a round.

    Currently $7.50 is dang cheap for targets ... a couple of years ago Lawreys were about that price when purchased by the truckload and current pricing for White Flyer and Lawreys is much higher. I'm glad your making profits from $3 a round of trap and I ant calling you a liar but there no freakin way in the world your making $7.50 profit off of 4 rounds of trap ... there just aint no way ... there just aint no way charging only $3 a round.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    lumper- Lets check my math. Five shooters shooting each shooting 25 birds (I call this a round)requires 125 targets plus a sighter target and a couple of broken birds. A case of targets contains 135 birds. If a box of targets costs $7.50, and 5 shooters pay $3 to shoot 25 targets, then the gross income is $15 and the gross profit is $7.50. I think my arithmetic is correct.

    Pat Ireland
     
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