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Vic Reinders could for see the future of our sport

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    Years ago, Vic and I would often discuss the future of trapshooting and the shooting sports in general. If you knew Vic, his #1 goal was always to keep prices down so the average working man could still shoot.

    Vic was a college chemistry professor, and although he could afford to shoot, he was as frugal as they come, and smart enough to know that the back bone of any gun club was the league shooter.

    I was in the banking profession and I would tell Vic that the back bone of any bank was not the rich depoistor, but the average blue collar worker who cashes his weekly check and deposits part of his check into his saving's account each week.

    Vic often felt that high prices on shot and componets would some day drive away the average working man, and that would be bad for our sport.

    I would ask Vic what was his biggest concern about gun clubs in general? I would also ask him if he thought our guns would some day be confiscated?

    He had the ability to look in to the future and one of his many concerns was not about the confiscation of our guns, but the driving up of prices on ammo, and city fathers raising taxes on gun clubs where the membership fee would be raised so high that clubs would have a tough time trying to survive.

    Every thing that Vic feared about the survival of the shooting sports may possibly be coming true? What do you think? Do we have more to fear about gun confiscation or the raising up of gun club taxes and the price of ammunition?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    I have always thought the way they would get to us was by taxing ammo to death if you can't afford to buy it you can't shoot it

    But the crooks will always be able to buy it just save enough for a robbery
     
  3. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    Yes Steve...And in 1966 my first new car cost me 2300.00. I made just over a buck an hour.When I retired I was making over 50 bucks an hour..

    Yes prices are going to rise...
     
  4. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Shot went from $10 to $40 in a few years time, that's a fast change.

    It's getting harder for many to find spare money.

    I used to load for under $2 a box, hard shot, good powder and primers. My income has not increased.
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Olympic .22 competitions have had their bullets replaced by lasers.

    Someday you'll shoot trap at an indoor range with a laser shotgun and a projection screen of a trap field.

    After you've passed an extensive background check and can show your FFOID card (Fake Firearms Owner ID).
     
  6. K005

    K005 Member

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    Steve, Vic was very frugal when it came to shooting and the WTA. He was also a supporter of the NRA and concerned about gun legislation and confiscation. I remember his notes on the payout sheets from the state shoots. Bob K.
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I paid just under $5 for shot in 1964. As soon as it comes down again I'll buy more!!
     
  8. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Cost of gasoline in 1964 was $.30 a gallon. Looks like shot just about kept up. Mark
     
  9. Remdog1187

    Remdog1187 Well-Known Member

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    The major reason lead shot has quadrupled is the quest for automotive battery power. Lead is in demand for those hybrid and electric cars. Drives the price up
    to a point where it's not attainable for the average guy. The airline industry, aerospace & military are also using more battery power.
     
  10. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    $5 shot in 1964 would be $37 now counting for inflation. Don't seem too far out of line does it?


    jim brown
     
  11. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    If Vic were alive today, I do not think he could have predicted the prices that we now pay in componets and entrance fees. One time we were shooting a round of Sunday morning skeet and he told me if a bag of shot ever got to be $10.00 a bag there would be a mass exodus from the shooting sports.

    Vic would try so many things to lower the price of shooting. I once saw him shooting at skeet targets just dusting them, and once and a while a chip here and there while shooting.

    I asked him what was wrong and he was trying split peas in place of lead shot as he said they were not heavy enough. We need to find a possible cheap replacement for lead shot before just the rich are shooting some day.
    Steve
     
  12. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Do you think old Vic will come back and haunt the Waukesha Gun Club with their $7.50 targets for members?


    jim brown
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    But....how do we account for disposable/recreational income? IMO, that would take some very objective and complicated numbers crunching. For example, as income goes up with inflation, so does the rate of personal income tax taxation. So not only, and I'm guessing here, does one take the hit due to being paid more, albeit with inflated dollars, the percentage of gross income rises. Hence less relative disposable income.

    I've always felt, "it's not how much you make, it's how much (income) you can keep."

    Must be an accountant at this forum that can crunch some real world numbers much better than our speculations which could be somewhat misleading, including mine.
     
  14. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Even considering that component prices have followed the inflation of everything else..unfortunantly my income has not risen appreciably since 2007 so like it or not my round count and events I can shoot in is cut more than in half...50 targets for league (no practice round) and a couple rounds for meat shoots mid week...sadly just the way it is...a real splurge for me is a couple hundred round at a big shoot in one day. That and fuel costs mean it absolutely must be local for me to afford it....no biggie though because my health still wont allow me to shoot more than 75 in a row anyway without giving my heart and knees a breather, and hot humid days are a real no-no to keep from keeling over.....It doesnt bother me anymore because Im lucky to hit side of a barn if I was trying to make an escape hole
     
  15. rwtii

    rwtii Member

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    Prices are up for components. Let's see. There is a war on, or two or three. There are a couple of billion people in India and China who want to buy cars. These cars have lead acid batterys. There are volunteer clubs whose sole purpose is to be the cheapest bar in town. The shooting is peripheral. I see some older members meet at the club and putter for an hour or two while they go through a case of the clubs beer. ot to make that up somehow. A private equity company bought one of the three premier shell makers and raised a price umbrella substantially. Everyone else followed them up. That is capitalism.
    Companies used to sponsor leisure activities for their employees. That ended when a judge called injuries at those activities to be work related. The liability was too great because of the ambulance chasers.
    There is a terrible tragedy and then a massive knee jerk reaction when all of the politicians bad decisions for years come home to roost. They are all looking for cover. Guess who they are gonna screw? Clearer Now?
     
  16. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Jim:
    If Vic saw the prices in general for shooting today, he would not believe it. Even though Vic was a very frugal person, he would not cut corners on his beloved PB powder.
    Steve

    Chango2:
    Very smart way of thinking.
    Steve

    I was sitting back thinking that when I first started shooting in 1970, I cleared roughly $200.00 a week at the local bank. My rent was $140.00 per month.

    I was shooting roughly 1,000 targets per week at the local gun club. Over the years my income increased and by the time I retired I was making a fairly good wage. Now I am retired, and I now can afford shooting two times every Sunday the 30 bird events at the local club, which is 60 targets per week.

    My question is, what has happened when someone clearing $200.00 per week in 1970 shooting 1,000 targets per month, now can only afford to shoot 60 targets per week????

    Like Vince Lombardi once said "what the he-- is going on around here?
    Steve
     
  17. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    When I started shooting in 1975 I figured I could reload at 1/2-2/3 the price of new AA's. (I still have the cost/price sheets) I figured my cost today buying bulk components and guess what? The same holds true today. With shot at $48.00 @ 25lbs my cost is $4.77 for a box of reloads (quality components) -vs- approximately (price varies) $8.00 a box of AA's today. That's still a 40% saving over new AA's. Of course, one can still buy Wally World specials at what it cost to reload a good shell, but in 1975 cheapies were available and no one used them.
     
  18. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Ask the Indiana trapshooters Association (ITA) about property taxes at the Indiana Gun Club. Yeah they are still open but that might only be because of the housing crisis of the last 5 years.
     
  19. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    We've had more than a few of our older shooters quit shooting. They still come to the club to drink coffee but they don't shoot anymore. It's a combination of things but the main one seems to be that their income is down.

    I hear it from them all the time. When they go to renew a CD they are only getting a 1% return. These guys live off their interest and if they ain't getting any they ain't shooting. Think about it - if you believe in "never touch principal" like these guys do, you will starve to death off what a Million dollar nest egg will produce. Million bucks in the bank at 1% is only 10K a year.
     
  20. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Bisi:
    I agree with you completely.
    Steve
     
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