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Very DUMB Reloader Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JACK, Apr 1, 2009.

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  1. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I chose to go cheap and shoot more this year. I felt if I doubled my targets wiht practice and a couple of leagues I could up my singles and handicap averages. So I went cheap during our component buy at the club. Between me, my daughter adn my SIL we will shoot prob 15 thou. My daughter will shoot 1 ounce 8s, 15.3 grs TITEWAD, Rem wad clone, wiht a CHEDDITE primer. I think the pressure will be in the 8000 psi area or less. My SIL and I will shoot 1-1/16 ounce 8s, Fig 8 clone, and a CHEDDITE primer. Probably an undetermined pressure, and that is the question. Since 11,500 psi is at the top of recommended pressures, can I be headed for a K-gun moment becasue of the lack of data on CHEDDITES?

    I looked for reloading data and found little. Perhaps one of you can help me thru this dilemma. I am not too worried about the 1 ounce load, nor the recoil from either load.

    The problem here is two fold, one that appears to be hear-say that CHEDDITES mimic Winchester primer characteristics and two, that what little data on CHEDDITIES seem to be disappearing form the reloading data that the powder guys turn out.

    I do have a case of CHEDDITES to work thru and a couple of bbls of TITEWAD to run thru as well. The question is will I live olng enough to burn thru this stuff or will I live just long enough for the gun to blow and get me?

    It is a serious question. Adn If you ahve any data that supports these loads, holler to me personally or on this thread

    I dropped my costs for over $4 a box to $3.25 with the above. But If I lose a gun or my life over the deal, the savings will have been a poor choice.

    Jack
     
  2. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    Your load fails to list what hull and what powder charge for the 1 1/16 oz load, so who can tell? Have you looked at the Hodgdon data site for loads? They show loads with Titewad, Fig 8 wads, and Cheddite primers. The is one on the Hodgdon website for 1 1/8 oz at 15.3 to 16.2 gr Titewad in the Remington hull.
     
  3. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    I have shot 10,000 chedites, using win. data, and not had any problems, not even a blooper.


    tony
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    There are no dumb questions.

    I'll assume you want to use the same 15.3g Titewad for the 1 1/6 Oz loads which puts you on the very lower end of most of the 1 1/8 Oz data. Velocities will probably be something like 1050 FpS with your 1 1/16 Oz charge, you might want to increase the charge to something like 16.5g. Other than that, I don't see a problems with using the Cheddites.
     
  5. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    A simple answer to the question. Unless you can find the load listed in one of the many published reloading guides or unless you know the presssures, do not use it!! The loads you listed may well be safe, but unless you know, you are simply asking for trouble or as you put it "a Kreighoff moment". If you cannot find the a loading for the components and levels you list in one of the multitude of manuals and powder maker references, then they have not judged them safe and don 't recommend that combination. Manufacturers test tens of thousands of loads, and list only those they are sure are safe. Those are the ones to use. JMHO

    Jim R
     
  6. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Thanks you guys. Yes the ounce and a sixteenth is right at 16.4. Adn th ehulls are STS exclusively.

    Well, that stuff is good to know. I am hoping to find some Cheddite data from Cheddite.
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Jack,

    I'd call Hodgdon and discuss this directly with one of their techs.

    Also, SIL = Son-in-law?
     
  8. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Tim. Yes. I am giving him some basics hoping that he cna catch up with my daughter. She is a class A singles 22 yard shooter. I put a real TM1 in his hands and hope that will shoot where the first 870 did that I started him with. She shoots a TMX. A really nice one too.. Hers

    [​IMG]

    And his

    [​IMG]

    I shoot a BT99.

    And here is a story that will interest some of you reloader types. My years of reloading were 20 years ago and mostly consisted of thorwo away doubles llodas and single loads. Well when I got intoreloading last year with my Grabber I made some very good PB hcp loads that were 1200 fps and ounce and an eigth and osme rally sooft shooting 1 ounce loads. My daughter and I both like the lack of recoil. I even shot mey best singles score wiht those one ouncers. Then I decded to up grade to the PW an sold off my MEC to a nice guy in NJ. Well, when I was packing and getting the laoder and accessories ready, I could not find my 7/8 oz spare bar. Adn then I saw it with the hangers and stuff on it. It turns out that I was using the 7/8 bar and thought I was making 1 ounce all along.

    Not one of my smarter moves, but then maybe it was meant to teach me something about loading and shooting after all.
     
  9. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    If you have not checked out the Hodgdon link provided by BobK do so. Just right click on the Hodgdon address to the right of "Website URL:".

    There is listed a 1 1/8 oz load with 16.2 gr 1145 f/s and 11,000 psi. To me your 16.4 gr 1 1/16 gr load is iffy, you may be ok because you have 1/16 oz less shot with only 0.2 gr more powder. But there is no data, I would load at no more than 16.2 grains to be absolutely sure.

    Using Win 209 data does not seem like a good idea, Ched 209 seems hotter when used with TiteWad powder. With Win 209 and 16.8 grs you get 1145 f/s and only 10,400 psi and you can go up to 17.8 gr to get 1200 f/s and 11,300 psi.

    Jason
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Titewad would not be my first choice as a powder for loads using more than 1oz of shot in these hulls. I try to stay below 10,000 PSI, especially when I don't have "exact" data. It sounds like your load could develop somewhere close to 11,000 PSI. It's too high to have a comfortable margin for error. There are variables that could put your pressures over the top. Temperature, crimps, variations in components, or other slight variations can raise or lower pressures quite significantly. Crimp depth alone showed a variation of over 3000 PSI in one published comparison. You could already be around 500 PSI or so, away from the max. A steady diet of high pressure loads (Near or AT Max) might be one of the reasons for a catastrophic failure. It's not the one load that really caused the gun to blow up, but probably the 50,000 high pressure loads that were shot before it. There are other theories on the phenomenon, but I'd hesitate to push my luck.

    The data listed on the Hodgdon site shows a significantly higher pressure for the Cheddite primer in similar loads, when compared to the Winchester 209. You might be OK to substitute them in the lightest loads, but I'd think twice about it with heavy target payloads and velocities. I would personally use the Tightwad for 7/8 - 1oz loads and get a more suitable powder (slower) for the 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 loads.
     
  11. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Quack and Jason. I hear ya. And that is my concern. I bought a brick of Rems yesterday and will look into that. It does appear that i have erred. And I chose not to err twice. Thanks.
     
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