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Using White Flyer Biodegradable birds

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by RichK, Aug 22, 2009.

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  1. RichK

    RichK Member

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    Location:
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    We recently took shipment of the newer biodegradable birds from White Flyer and I feel that they differ from the regular birds in the amount of dust they show when hit. If you are in the middle of them, they give a great ego boosting puff of dust unlike "dusting" the regular birds. However, when you have some lost birds, they also have a tendency to show some dust that I do not believe you ever see from the regular birds. This can really cause some controversy during league shooting when people see the clear evidence of a pellet or two hitting the bird but no discernible chip is seen just that little dust ball.
    At one of the clubs I regularly shoot, we regularly pick up the whole birds and re-use them for practice. It is not unusual to see many of them with clear hits and even some holes through the middles that did not break and were called lost. The thing is that with the older birds, you may have seen them move in the air or something, but rarely any other sign of a hit.
    Any body else seeing this with the biodegradable birds?
     
  2. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    I have seen the same, at some clubs. I am wondering, also, if these targets require a certain ammo to get the targets broken with more regularity. I notice lower scores at clubs throwing bio targets.
     
  3. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    I have heard from several clubs that the acid in the bios is causing damage to their machines. You might want to check.
     
  4. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Rain or moisture + Bio Targets = Sulfuric acid, which kills every trace of plant life on the ground, and has been known to corrode machines. Sulfuric acid can also contribute to lead from shot on the ground leaching into the water...
     
  5. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding that the targets will rust the machines. Be careful and watch the machines.
     
  6. twoatloweight

    twoatloweight Member

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    We quit throwing them because they killed at the grass and seemed corrosive.
     
  7. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    skeetman has it right. Sulfur used it the Bio target is what causes the problem. We had trouble with the plate the target is launched from. The metal pitted and caused the target to skip when thrown causeing many broken targets. Now that we know the cause we clean the plate with scotch gaurd pad and have reduced the breakage.
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Why does anybody use these vile things?
     
  9. WesleyB

    WesleyB Well-Known Member

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    Here is the answer to the 7 1/2 or 8 shot question. Use 7 1/2 shot to break those targets and 8's to break the black pitch ones.

    There ya go!

    Wesley B
     
  10. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    Ft. Bragg used to throw WF bio's then Lawry's then back to WF pitch..

    Can you say - no grass in the target fall zone?

    FRedmon
     
  11. Allen-MX8

    Allen-MX8 Member

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    My small club has used Bios, but we were getting a lot of broken targets due to the residue build up on the plate (we use a Pat Trap). To use the Bios we had to get sand paper to get rid of the build up.

    We switched back to the Pitch targets and while they are a bit more dirty we at least don't have the broken target problem.

    My advice, if you use a Pat Trap don't throw the Bios but use the pitch ones.

    Allen
     
  12. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    We throw them at our place, Naperville Sportsman's Club in Naperville, Illinois. We are required to use non-toxic targets and steel shot due to a lawsuit about 10 years ago.

    We've had Pat Traps for 3+ years and haven't had any issues with the machines caused by the bio targets. We give the machines a good cleaning once a year but other than that we don't do anything special becuase we are throwing bio's.

    Our targets are stored in a garage, and while not climate controlled the targets do stay dry, and our houses are dry also. When not shooting we run a small space heater in the winter months to keep down the moisture in the house.

    As for being harder to break or seeing more dust from bio's than pitch, I think part of it could be that it's just easier to see the white dust from the bio's.

    Scott
     
  13. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I thought you guys in Napervile are allowed to use lead now? If the bios produce sulfuric acid how is that 'nontoxic'? I have never heard of picth targets actually making anyone sick or killing them. I know the boxes warn against shooting them over swine because they're toxic if you ingest them but I've never seen a pig eat one, yet.

    I'd say that pitch targets are pretty damned safe.
     
  14. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Barry:

    No on the lead... we've got to use non-toxic shot and that was further restricted to steel... no change.

    All:

    As for the birds, WF uses sulfur as the binder, but as Scott Calhoun mentioned, we've had none of the trap machine side-effects mentioned and we do nothing special for our machines.

    We've been using the Bios (probably among the first to use them regularly) since our reopening in 2001. As a trap-only Club, we don't have the exposure the Trap-Skeet fields have with target fragments landing in close - our trap field shotfall/targetfall areas are well out there and somewhat hidden from close up brush.

    One interesting note to share, and I don't think anyone could argue that Chicago doesn't get its fair share of moisture and runoff, we test our ground water regularly and haven't had any indication that the degrading targets are generating any significant "acid".

    We also get no acrid smells from years of target debris... however I will offer that our degrading targets do not pile and we've lowered our maintenance expenses by not having to remove target debris.

    As for breaking targets, I'd have to say that using Bios and steel ammo, we'd have the perfect excuse for the lowest scores nationally... but in all fairness, we're breaking as many as anyone else and our waste appears less. We shoot a dove with yardages out to 60-70 yards and still get decent breaks using our steel - if the birds didn't break at 16-27, they surely shouldn't break past 40...

    We do not get the puff balls seen at other clubs during the day, but I like the white smoke at night - that is really cool on a still evening! We get plenty of chips, but its still takes a good 3-5 pellets to break... if one has to break a bird with 2/400, and this may ranckle a few hackles, I don't think they deserve the bird in the first place, chip showing... but that's another thread!

    The birds weigh the same, fly the same, but may break differently - shoot on-target, the scores will be the same...

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  15. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    After 5 + years shooting the White flyer Bios there is NOTHING that will grow in the "dust" drop zone. We went back to Lawry Targets. Here are before after pictures, before
    [​IMG]


    And after, years later.


    [​IMG]
     
  16. 7771

    7771 Active Member

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    at our club they broke and jammed the machine and u get more dust than broken birds
     
  17. sshotshell

    sshotshell Member

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  18. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Not anymore. Those things pitted the hell out of our Pat-Trap and wiped out our grass. Also can someone figure out a test for all of these targets and put to rest the rumor that "Lawry and Bios are harder that WF pitch." I don't see it but every club I go to someone complains about them. Dave T.
     
  19. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    FrankC:

    I see the before and after... while the "before" picture doesn't really offer the same viewing orientation as the "after"... what's so bad about no grass in the shotfall zone?!

    From the "after" picture, Bios do not appear to be hurting the plant life immediately behind the shotfall zone. However, I do find it interesting that you appear to have one strip flourishing, like an oasis among desert!

    Everybody's operation is different... we have had excellent results using the Bio target with no impact on our equipment and its lessened our maintenance expenses... while forced to change, the Bio turned out to be a good business decision for our program.

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  20. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Jay, What we found because of using on combo fields, skeet and trap imposed on it, was that the broken targets from skeet wiped out all plant life from the shooter's area. I agree that it's not a problem on the trap field other than over time you develop a more difficult back ground for seeing the target. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
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