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US Appeals Court strikes down Illinois CC ban

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet dollars to donuts that Illinois will simply make the acquisition of a license to be a financial burden and a big time suck with high fees, ridiculous training requirements, proof of insurance, etc., to the point where only the rich can afford it.
     
  3. Duck

    Duck Member

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    Brian,

    I'm with you, Rahm and his liberal ilk in Chicago already has a end around planned I'm sure!. Not sure being wealthy will matter?.
     
  4. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    IL has 180 days to implement the conceal carry law. If they fail would the new law of the land be "can carry".
     
  5. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I feel for you guys....House Majority Leader Barbra Currie says

    “If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

    What???? Is she so blind to see in her own city, that is exactly what is going on now? Very few honest citizens turn vigilante, its the bad guys out of control. Jeez, how did she get in office? Good luck.

    Wayne
     
  6. CharlieAMA

    CharlieAMA TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I'm with Brian. They make so tough and expensive to carry, it probably won't worth the hassle. Again, only the thugs will have guns. They don't care about laws anyway.
     
  7. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Why would insurance be needed for a fundamental right. That would be like mandatory ins just for being alive...oh wait, Obama has told us just that.
     
  8. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    A friend of mine - a cop BTW - repeatedly states that he doesn't think anyone needs PERMISSION to defend himself/herself by any means. However, anyone who carries and does something stupid - like flashing a gun or puling one on someone - can expect negative repercussions. The key element that is often drummed into people who take the CC courses is that a gun is only used IN DEFENSE when the intent is to kill the bad person, and only when the bad person is truly threatening the CCs life.

    Nobody should ever know is another person is carrying. That's the point of "concealed". This is also why I would object to open carry. Open carry is "in your face" offensive and opens up a whole other can of worms. Plus, its just gross to see people walking around in every day life with a gun on their hip - legal or not.

    Illinois will probably see changes and most citizens - me included - will find fault with whatever becomes the law of this state. Still, I hearken back to my friend's comment about needing permission to protect by butt.
     
  9. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I've lived in this State(IL) for 43 years. I have learned to take everything positive being voted in with a grain of salt and believe it when I see it.
     
  10. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Remember when I first moved to Idaho over thirty years ago. In small towns saw people openly carrying with no issues whatsoever. No one seemed excited about it at all.

    Before concealed carry was legal in Arizona, I took classes from Jeff Cooper at Gunsite. He told us that concealed carry was illegal in Arizona at that time, but open carry was perfectly legal. All the class participants carried openly in the little town near Gunsite with no one getting the least bit excited.

    But that has always been the case.

    Big city people get excited about things that country people do not.

    .
     
  11. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Grandpa, you are mistaken about the goal of carrying a concealed weapon being "to kill the bad person". That is completely wrong and if you state such a thing to the cops you will be charged with murder for certain. The purpose of using deadly force is to stop the behavior of the criminal, not to kill him/her. Deadly force is legal only to the point that the criminal ceases to become a threat.

    For example, say some perp tries to attack you with a knife, you put a couple of rounds into him and he then crumples to the ground unable to move. At that point you are in the right with self defense but if you decide to give him one more to kill him, now you've committed murder. This is taught at all the concealed carry classes I've been to.

    Don't take my word for it, though, talk to your attorney.
     
  12. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    INTENT is teh key word in my post. A problem arises when victims maintain an erroneous belief that they can cripple or main an assailant just like in the old westerns. Heck, one of Chicago's aldermen once stated that he though the police should shoot to main a criminal - maybe just shooting him in the hand or leg. While it is likely that a gunshot may not kill someone,. the INTENT behind pulling that trigger is to stop an assault with the full knowledge taht the action is likely to kill someone. Anyone not willing to bear that responsibility should not carry a firearm.

    One question that should be asked in CC classes is whether the student understands that he/she may find themselves in a situation where the action they take with a gun will likely result in the death of someone - maybe the perp, maybe not. That's serious business and why I stand by my post when I wrote, "...a gun is only used IN DEFENSE when the intent is to kill the bad person, and only when the bad person is truly threatening the CCs life."

    If the shots stop an attack and the perp is alive, continuing to fire is illegal and immoral (which is farm more damning that just braking the law. That kind of action is tantamount to chasing an assailant down the street and shooting him/her in the back - which actually happened when a bad guy tried to rob a pharmacy. The robbery was foiled yet the druggist chased the dude and shot him. I recall that the pharmacist is doing time.

    Larry
     
  13. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Grandpa, what you just wrote is all fine and dandy but your earlier post of stating you are shooting to kill will find you looking out a jail cell. While you may think that in your silent thoughts you should NEVER say it.

    What Galt said above is 100% accurate. Your position as a CCW holder is to stop the threat on your life and nothing more. Your actions may indeed result in the death of another individual but if you show purposeful intent to kill, you committed murder.
     
  14. SBray

    SBray Active Member

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    "I'll bet dollars to donuts that Illinois will simply make the acquisition of a license to be a financial burden and a big time suck with high fees, ridiculous training requirements, proof of insurance, etc., to the point where only the rich can afford it."

    Brian, in California, it is illegal for an agency to charge (for profiting)over and above the actual costs to process a CW permit. The state determines what that amount would be, and, each agency then uses the state forms and charges those set costs. This procedure is in place to (supposedly) prevent an agency issuing permits, while making money on the side.

    Steve
     
  15. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    grntitan and John Galt....

    I see the error of my words.
    My intent was honest but my execution has something missing.

    Larry
     
  16. fast gun

    fast gun Active Member

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    Whats gross about carying a gun open on your hip????
     
  17. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    People openly carried guns in my town when I was in grade school in the fifties. No one got exited or was ever shot by anyone openly carrying...Bill
     
  18. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    9 judges on this court and only 3 got to vote? Before this is over I'm sure the state will be asking the whole court of 9 to be voting on this.
     
  19. Mike K P

    Mike K P Member

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    They aren't going to go down without a fight and when it does go through I'm sure they won't make it very cost prohibitive. I remember when our now imprisoned ex governor Rod Blagojevich wanted to raise the cost of obtaining a firearms owner identification card from $5.00 to $500.00!

    I live in Illinois just outside of Chicago, looking forward to watching the news tonight!
    Mike
     
  20. highway

    highway Member

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    I happen to live in Illinois, and at this moment I am just glad to see that some form of realistic law has been approved by the court. Most of you know that I live in the most corrupt state in the union and it is rare that the courts buck the heavy duty politicans. I'm going to worry about the costs and regulations later and I'm glad my NRA funds were well spent. How do I begin the process to be the number one applicant?
    Roger
     
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