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Universal Service Obligation and firearms

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by g7777777, Dec 19, 2012.

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  1. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I am not in disagreement that there is a legitimate argument that the AR carbine group has a use in home defense-and I might argue that there is even a limited sporting application in some context and of course there could be a recreational application of just having fun.

    Regardless of the possible application, there does need to be some regulation beyond what there is today. Regulation is problematic as you point out, but we do regulate nearly everything in our culture.

    I think the universal service obligation for men and women would solve many of these problems.

    We would also screen, outside mommy and daddy's protection individuals or they would screen themselves and if they demonstrated medical or mental conditions, then that identification is made and treatment could be taken. Then again you have the commonality factor, like a sports team or locker room.

    There are many reasons that this approach works in Israel and Switzerland

    Just telling the parents to shut up stupid might creates an all or nothing situation which won’t be advantageous for gun owners.

    Why are so many, particularly the young ones so opposed to serving their nation?

    They would leave with a skill, education benefits, a view of the world and appreciation of others and oh by the way this commonality in the use and appropriate use, security, storage and preservation/maintenance of firearms.

    And we would get people to work- paying taxes- being a contributing part of society



    Regards from Iowa


    Gene

    PS


    Lets use the teachers union as a model on the support of such an issue.

    If this came to a vote some might say that the entitlement generation would not vote for it--- but no they would and here is why that would work

    No they would vote for it if it came to a vote because they would all be grandfathered out- it would start at 18 on a given date and it directly serves their interest to do so

    That is what the teachers union just did- they have fought for years against teacher measurement- actually decades but now they are for it

    For new teachers- before they get a licence = why? the older teachers are already dues paying members and there is a huge glut of teachers

    So these older teachers swallow their morals and agree to a plan that they have fought for decades also- why? they are looking out for their own short term interest

    Like here- those that voted for it would have a new generation of tax payers to pay for social and welfare programs
     
  2. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Gene, I live just south of Camp Pendelton and drive through it on I-5 at least once a week. The marines from that camp commit some very serious crimes. Like in any other group it's a small percentage, but their service is no guarantee of good behavior.
     
  3. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    It is a screening process and a maturation process

    The difference with Universal service though would be the additional identification of people that need physical or mental health assistance and follow up on those individuals

    The more people you have in a group the more respect you bring to each other and the more ideas and understanding that are shared

    Plus the teamwork approach

    Men and Women

    It works in other countries

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    So what do you do with these people identified to be deemed unfit for service?

    Maybe tattoo a number on them so they can't have a drivers license, or own a gun, have a CCW, not let them vote, or near schools, shopping centers, airports, or movie theaters? Who is going pay for the medical attention and tracking these unfit individuals? May be put them in camps?

    Wayne
     
  5. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    Gene,


    You have made this statement in at least three threads now. We have heard your opinion and most of us disagree with you. It is obvious you are not a rifle shooter and ARs mean nothing to you, but that isn't the case for some of us. So please quit siding with the liberals on gun matters, because today they want our ARs, but tomorrow they will want to ban our Krieghoffs, Perazzis, Kolars, etc. The gun had nothing to do with the killings, it was a tool used by a psychopath! Don't give in to their liberal banning crap. With that being said, we all should keep our guns secure from access by others by whatever means necessary, but not by banning them!

    Steve in Indiana
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Kolardude- wrong- I have been a rifle shooter all my life

    As far as universal service- what are you afraid of?

    BTW- most people on here do agree with me( but dont post) and I am not for taking anything- you might want to actually read what I wrote

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    Wayne- no one is unfit essentially with the exception of terribly disabled persons

    There is a civil work program option after basic training- we give them a job and benefits

    Even handicapped people get an individually structured plan

    On individuals identified as having physical or mental issues- they get treatment and earlier treatment is always the best option anyway

    The country does benefit from the labor and the individual and society benefits from the aspects of service
     
  7. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    What is problematic is our society's use of "accomodations" and other excuses for people that have issues dealing with life and life's problems. Everyone should go through a service obligation and be evaluated whether fit for duty or not, if you are found lacking then you should lose your rights to be around firearms.
     
  8. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    So is the purpose of universal service now to be the separating point of those currently "mentally ill" from those that the politicians in charge think will tote the current political line ?

    Statists have used mental illness for incarcerating the politically inconvenient for a long time.


    .
     
  9. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Twinbirds- pretty simple concept isnt it?

    Of course it would work-

    The other benefits are tremendous but the early treatment of this stuff is what people are asking for and yes if are mentally ill you wont be allowed to be around firearms unless cleared by a medical board or court

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  10. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Barker

    Ease the concerns of your friends then

    Do any of them fear this? That is paranoid- there is a civil work corps option

    I didnt say anything about early development- so dont get on a parnoid track with your friends

    This is about young adults- being weened- and serving the nation and learning a skill- and after that they can go to civilian colleges or out into the work force to be competitive

    Yes there will be other things happen that you complain about- like the early detection and treatment of mental ilness- or prohibition of the mentally ill from having firearms unless those rights are returned by a board of doctors or a court

    So Barker- you complain about this stuff- what makes you so afraid of a solution

    The nations that do this have prospered and who is going to have an unternal power grab in Switzerland or Israel and enslave their citizens? all of whom are trained in military tactics and team drills and have weapons- sometimes right at home

    Use your 4th point of contact Barker and you might see solutions rather than whine

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    Pyrdek- involuntary servitude doesnt mean that

    Is going to school involutary servitude?

    Forgeting your own personal fears here- this would be a solution to each and every problem you are complaining about here to include identification and treatment of the mentally ill and not allowing them access to firearms

    Is the alternative to just be a whiner and watch life go by?

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene

    PS why do you think your "rights" under what you think you understand of the 2nd Amendment are any more important than those of parents that dont want what you want and have rights under their pursuit of happiness? No one is talking about taking away any rights of yours here with the possible exception of those with mental illness
     
  11. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Damn but these few lines seem to be a problem. Let's throw them out.

    "1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

    Oh, in case you forgot, this is called the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. I hope you remember that this is the same document that has the 2nd Amendment. Yea, that amendment about the right to bear arms. Of course if we throw out the 13th then why can't we throw out that pesky old 2nd Amendment also.
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Rick if you are for that than push it- America needs the labor force and we all need jobs

    Contact your congress person=

    A grass roots level effort might actually take hold

    This is a solution- it mixes the different elements of society after they become adults and need to be weened, before we just hand over this entire set of adult rights to them, which includes the right to vote by the way

    I do think after service they get to go to whatever school they want to or have earned educational awards for or go out into the work place

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  13. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    Of course, the mandatory servitude will be under the same folks as ObamaCare -- Reid and Pelosi.

    "We have to pass it to find out what's in it."

    .
     
  14. drgondog

    drgondog Member

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    Gene - it may have slipped your attention but we did have nea universal service during WWII and selective service in Korea and Vietnam.

    Would you refresh my memory of the performance of 'screened behavior' with draftees as recent as Vietnam? Was willingness to smoke dope, defy authority, frag officers part of the behavior that was deemed acceptable?

    Personally I DO favor Selective Service but DO NOT support that as a condition of citizenship. I DO believe in a mix of Citizen soldier with Professional. I Do believe in mandatory firearm training and CCL training as condition for graduation from High School.

    However, If you can designate one organization as a 'ruler/voter class' then we have only to look at either the Nazi or Communist Party and introduce and indoctrinate early draft teams with Hitler Youth and Red Brigades for the teens.

    Further - once you do designate a priveleged class, I suppose you can set the screening criteria - say non-caucasion or oriental male between 15 and 19, with minimum tatoo coverage of 25%, penis at least 13 inches, zero education beyond K-9 and must not live in a home with a biological father, etc, etc.

    Do you qualify? Sorry about the penis criteria, but that means you may not possess a firearm.

    Regards,

    Bill from Scurry
     
  15. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    Twelve plus years of government indoctrination in school is not enough for the Libs.

    .
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Barker- no it doesnt and you arent god-

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
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