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Unions are GOOD and BAD.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Gargoyle!, Aug 11, 2007.

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  1. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    Unions are both good and bad. Its good for the workers because it gets them better pay and protects them from owners and bosses who want to work the workers to death. On the other hand it keeps prices up and pays people who are not worth paying that much to. In other words you have a guy who is being paid $75.00 an hour to put lugnuts on a car in the factory. $75.00 to do something so simple as putting lugnuts on a car. People wonder why others hate the union.
     
  2. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Gargoyle.................I think you've been way over paid in your lifetime, you can afford a computer to the dismay of most of us. LOL

    Are you and Gene brothers or the same person? LOL

    Bill
     
  3. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Hey now I am a member of a union!!! Sure the money is good but the Union world S_ _ _ KS, Literally!!For the most part it is not what you KNOW .It is who you BLOW!!! Thats my story and I am sticken to it!
    LOL PJ
     
  4. jnoemanh

    jnoemanh TS Member

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    "In other words you have a guy who is being paid $75.00 an hour to put lugnuts on a car in the factory."

    Gets paid $75 an hour? Where? Sign me up!! LOL
     
  5. Finprof

    Finprof TS Member

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    The average cost per hour for GM unskilled assembly line workers is $73.73. That includes salary and benefits - health care and pension cost. The salary is much lower - about half of that.
     
  6. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Nytro, maybe its the 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 2 year residency and a zillion dollars in college loans and half-million dollar a year malpractice premiums. The latter thanks primarily to the democrats and their trial lawyer buddies.

    You, on the other hand with a high school education?
     
  7. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    h92064;You hit the nail on the head and buy the way 687 I do not play the union game to get ahead and sorry about the typo.I joined the union thinking I would be working with skilled craftsmen and boy was I wrong.If someone was related to someone they had it all.If the union would organize the top 2 people from each non union shop it would make a difference.But the worthless members get to vote on this and they know that if this happened they would be out of a job because the employers would see how much more production these NEW members could do and the worthless ones would be out of a job. Not all members are worthless but the way the union works to protect the bad ones is wrong.This is in regards to construction.
    PJ
     
  8. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    h92064.............I've been a card carrying union member for 31 years, if someone in our local doesn't carry their own weight they don't work or are expelled. No if, ands or butts about it. Plus I travel all over the state and some surrounding ones at my own expense. That is my choice.

    poacherjoe.....The union I'm talking about is in the constructon trade.

    The wages that are talked about in the previous threads might be true but they are a long way from the normal through out the country. Union wages in a factory here at home is $16- $18 an hour plus bennies depending on the shift. They still have a high turnover of personnel because of other conditions. Similar work at another place of employment here at home is $9 and very few bennies. What kind of life can YOU live on at $9 hr.? Which would you choose? Which would you like to see your offspring work? You know not everyone in the country can be a professional but we all have the same needs and wants.

    People can trash the unions all they want but life will revert to previous conditions without them.

    Bill
     
  9. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    unions protect the worst workers, my wife is a nurse and it pisses her off that half the nurses do not know/or do their job or are just lazy and make the same and sometimes more money. My wife says someone has to die or serious injurry result before a nurse gets fired.
     
  10. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    likes to shoot;All of you proud union workers;I am proud of my 27+ years in the pipefitters + plumbers union but the guy's that kiss ass stay at home.I travel and they do not because they are in a click.Most of the proud members travel to get work.Like maclellan say's you can do 3 times the work someone else does and they get paid the same and you get laid off first because you don't have enough Carmex on your lips.It is sad but true at least in my local.PJ
     
  11. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the gain of power by the UAW in the 1930's, as with the steel workers, and other industrial unions, you'll find that their power came about as the result of liberal court rulings, which forced corporations to bargain. If you owned a small business, would you think it fair that the U.S. Government could force you to bargain with people who have no financial stake in your company? That's exactly what the courts did. From that point, corporations paid huge amounts of benefits to maintain labor peace, and stay out of the courts. The UAW and steel workers are just the two largest. Collective bargaining is the opposite of laissez faire capitalism. Literally millions of workers got financial benefits, from no personal financial risk. Try doing that in the stock and securities markets.

    Why do you think that unions like the minimum wage laww? Most have contract provisions that provide a guaranteed gap between union and minimum wages.

    Unions did a lot of good, especially in terms of working conditions, and everyone in industry today, can be thankful for those pioneers.

    Doctors and lawyers, for the most part, negotiate their own fees with patients and clients. See what happens to medical care when rates are set by HMO's, insurance companies, and in some cases, the government. Try and become a OB-GYN, and get malpractice insurance. If you don't have insurance, you can still negotiate fees with some doctors and dentists.

    Medical rates would probably be far less expensive, if people negotiated directly with the care-giver. Lawyers usually deal individually. Given a relatively straight-forward need (will, basic probate, etc.), fees can be very inexpensive. But get complex, as in product liability cases, and the sky becomes the limit. Expert witnesses, DNA tests, investigations, etc., get expensive very quickly. Given that juries can be very free when they think it's someone elses money, and outrageous awards become somewhat common.

    Why do people only remain prosecutors for governments for a relatively short period of time? Get to the private sector and make a ton of money. But that, in itself is fairly rare. There are a lot more poor lawyers than rich ones. Do you think that the F. Lee Bailey's, and Johnny Cochran's of the world would ever prosecute for the government? Maybe we need to have lawyers work both sides of the aisle in civil and criminal law. See how fast things change. If you think that this idea would float with the ABA and Trial Lawyers, I have some land...

    No, I never carried a union card, but history is out there for everyone to study.
     
  12. m70win

    m70win Member

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    You know if you think about you can blame the unions for the high cost of health care also. Look at all those union people with great health insurance and the doctors keep ordering any test they can think of every time you go to see one.If it wasn't for the unions here in Michigan most the hospitals would probably close up and go bankrupt.
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Making a contract that spells out the working conditions, safety issues, rates of pay, seniority, and retirement is not very easy for one individual.

    Only collective bargaining works to get a fair shake from employers who don't give a damn about anything except production figures and the bottom line.

    The pointing out of human failings in the union picture is done by people who don't want to get the whole picture.

    They should try standing behind a machine in a textile mill for 12 hours a day.

    At 12 years old.

    HM
     
  14. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

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    <i>"Employers who don't give a damn about anything except production figures and the bottom line."</i>

    HM, isn't that what they are in business for?

    Health and safety issues have been federally mandated for decades. cls
     
  15. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    When Hillary is President and LEAD reaches an all time low of $75 a bag..thank a deserving employee that has WORKED 5 years and DESERVED his salary to be protected for the rest of his life.........
     
  16. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Nytro, I'm a 1965 graduate of the VMI and remember Vietnam. KMA!
     
  17. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Were is the factory that pays 75 per hour to install lug nuts? I'll send both boys and my daughter to apply. Dan
     
  18. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    h92064:

    I'm going to assume your nick represents your birthdate. This makes you about the same age as my son.

    This would mean you never had to work at factory jobs that had danger present because safety equipment never was wanted by management, or was worn out and not replaced because of cost. A host of occupational hazards would still exist today if not for union intervention.

    Anyone who thinks the time for unions is past is just giving the henhouse key to the fox. Ask salaried lower management employees how many hours a week they work. Or people in retail, after the carrot of upper management jobs has long disappeared spend their days being a cashier for a little more than minimum wage, never mind the college education.

    I have to laugh at the go it alone mindset, The mouse will never best the tiger. No matter how smart the mouse thinks he is.

    Good union leadership spends planety of time working on ways to make employees more valuable with training for new technology and productivity awareness.

    I'm not working much any more but retirement didn't make me dumb. Speaking with the voice of many is much louder than a squeaking mouse.

    HM
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HM- One line in your above post is very relevant. An employees should be valuable to an employer. All employers recognize that they need to retain valuable employees and employees are responsible for making themselves valuable to the employer. In a small business, it is quite simple to recognize the most valuable employees. In a larger corporation, individual recognition becomes more difficult.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    In Princapal, Unions are good things.

    In practice what a joke!

    The closest Chain Grocery outlet to my parents is a UNION shop, We Don't and you wouldn't want to buy meat there! It is hard enough to find any package of meat that loooks like it was even touched by a true butcher! And when you can't find, what you can find in any other store in town, don't bother asking the butcher(??????) to cut it for you! An hour or two later he might bring out something, not what you wanted! Complain to the store manager? Well the shop is union what do you want me to about it!!!!!!!!!

    This sums up my personal experience with unions pretty good.

    One of my mentors, role models, Hunting partners (EVEN though I was for along time the kid going along), a union man, shop stuart, ETC ETC. He was in a position to be able to fire the bums in almost every shop or on every job he worked. Man did he give the card carrying jerks an earfull when they tried to pull any "hey I am UNION BS". More like him, unions would not be such a joke!

    But alas in our area he was a one of kind. I will even open a bottle of Jim Beam later to have a drink to his memory!

    AL
     
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