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Unibody?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Charles.F.Phillips, Oct 17, 2009.

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  1. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    We all know that AA-HS cases are not unibody like the old compression formed AA's were, but what about others such as STS? My old 4th Edition Lyman (1998) book shows Remington RTL Premier cases as a one piece tapered case, but SP's have a separate plastic basewad. STS's aren't even listed.

    I know, I should update my book, but I've been putting it off and using the tables at the Hodgdon site. I've stuck with the compression formed AA's in 12 gauge since 1982, so there was little reason to update until I started loading 410 bore in 1999, but now that I'm thinking about trying other cases in 12 gauge, I know I should order a new book.

    I've been thinking about giving STS cases a try, but I don't want to run the risk of a basewad separation, so if anyone can give me some info about them, I would appreciate it.

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude abides..."
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    STS and Remington Gun Club hulls are one piece tapered. The newer AA hulls have a separate base wad. I reload AA hulls exclusively because they are easier to come by in Western Canada.
     
  3. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    OK, the 5th Edition is now on its way from Amazon. I'd still love to hear what you guys have to say about the subject...

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude abides..."
     
  4. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    miketmx,

    I still use the compression formed AA's in 12 gauge - just ordered 1000 last winter. I now use AA-HS in .410, but I'd prefer to get away from them.

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude abides..."
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    STS, Gun Club, Nitro, the old Remington Premier and old style AA are all the one piece compression formed construction.

    The recipes for them are basically the same, with some individual variations that I ascribe to normal deviation in testing.

    With regard to the new AA, loading on a Mec with collet resizing is vastly preferable to pushing down on the rim with a sleeve resizer. In my opinion this could lead to basewad separation.

    I have had no problem with new AA, however if they are past 3 or 4 loadings I use them in a break gun and check before putting in a new shell.

    Disclaimer:

    This relates to my opinion and experience only. Guerini and K80 shooters take note.

    HM
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    The short version is that all Remington 2¾" LEAD shells - smooth or ribbed, 8pt or 6pt crimps, high/low/mid brass: STS, Gun Clubs, Game Loads, Sureshot - are Unibody hulls and load identically.

    For 410 & 28, AA are THE hull, however ... 2x, 3x reloads over STS.


    Bob
     
  7. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Cut the STS down the middle and you will find the tube is a one piece construction, with an integral base wad. It's been this way for a long time. I have some old RXP hulls that are virtually the same construction and dimensions as the newer STS, Premier, Gun Clubs, etc. They are all close enough that you should be able to use the current data for all Remington hulls of such construction.

    As an aside, I have loaded many thousands of the new AA Hulls without any basewad separations. I have not ever encountered a loose base wad. I do a thorough inspection as part of my loading process. I also load on a Mec, that presses down on the hull during the priming process. I HAVE seen MANY migrated basewads from many of the Eurotrash hulls made by UEE. I have NOT seen a basewad exit the hulls, but many have moved up the tube. This was on the first firing of the factory shell. I don't shoot them, nor would I reload them. I've posted the pics and details here many times before. If you are interested, I can dig them up again.
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Take a new AA hull apart, and see if you can get the base wad to move. In my opinion AA base wads do not migrate. HMB
     
  9. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I have loaded thousands upon thousands of AA new style hulls with no problems. I use AA only. They rate lower pressures in identical loads than the Rems. Please send me your new style "trash" AA today!
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    hmb

    "Take a new AA hull apart, and see if you can get the base wad to move. In my opinion AA base wads do not migrate."

    All I read on these threads is "Safety First". This or that was done for safety Mr. hmb says in his opinion "AA base wads do not migrate"



    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]


    They don't move and they don't come out. These aren't my pictures I didn't take them but I save a lot of what come through this site. Some times it take me a while to realize where I stored them.

    If safety is so important and any one can find ONE just ONE shell that has or has had a problem. Why would anyone load these excuses for a catastrophe? Then claim they are safe there is no problem with them.

    Well I load STS there is nothing that is an add on inside them. There is no debate about whether the base wad can move or not. The base wad is the shell they are one and the same.

    So if you are reloading hulls that are more than ONE PIECE spare me the BS and the rhetoric about safety. I say this because IMO you really don't care about safety.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Bob, If you look at the pictures you will see that the base wad did not move in relation to the plastic part of the hull. The plastic hull is still in one piece. Do you understand. One piece. See if you can take the plastic part of the hull and separate it into two pieces. I am saying it does not separate. HMB
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    hmb

    "If you look at the pictures you will see that the base wad did not move in relation to the plastic part of the hull."

    First picture I see a space between the brass and the bottom of the base wad I have no idea what you see. I will admit the photos aren't the best quality but again they aren't mine.

    The second picture last shell(on the right)the base wad is not in the shell it is at the bottom of the picture. Of course you will see it as not move it assembled that way Right.

    Get it through your head if there is one tenth of one percent chance that the base wad could move you are not using total safety. You can argue the pictures all you want but any chance however slight you are compromising the safety of that shell.

    You have a nice day now.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting for you to take a shell apart, and try to move the base wad.

    Your pictures don't prove anything. HMB
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    hmb

    "Your pictures don't prove anything."

    Two points they aren't my pictures for the third time. Which further demonstrates your inability to recognize what you have been told. It proves they are two piece which means safety wise less safe than hulls that are one piece.

    Of course I don't know why I bother trying to explain it to you. You can't seem to grasp the fact that illegal targets that have been shot at must be scored!!!!!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bob....Just leave those once fired AAs on the ground.


    The rest of us will pick them up for our reloading! :)
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Ahab

    Why would I spend my money on a shell I won't load??????

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Right on Ahab.

    Are you afraid to take one apart Bob. I don't blame you, it might be dangerous. HMB
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    hmb

    "Are you afraid to take one apart Bob."

    More proof of your obvious intelligence level. Ask yourself a question if I don't shoot them new or used and I don't reload them. Where would get one to take apart genius????

    If I did and couldn't move the base wad what would that prove????

    Oh I forgot you have a problem with common thought. Taking apart still has nothing to do with safety any way. Does it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    Check under your pillow, maybe the Tooth Fairy will bring you one. HMB
     
  20. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Bob (ivahoe),

    <i>"Get it through your head..."</i>

    <i>"...further demonstrates your inability to recognize what you have been told..."</i>

    <i>"... I don't know why I bother trying to explain it to you. You can't seem to grasp the fact that..."</i>

    <i>"Oh I forgot you have a problem with common thought..."</i>

    I really appreciated you adding your first post - it really added to the discussion. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for you to revert to your normal mode of operation. Has the thought, "Gee, I wonder WHY everyone thinks I'm an ignorant troll" ever occurred to you? Most of us learned not to talk that way to people in kindergarten. Some behave that way through high school, but most of them outgrow it by adulthood. When will you learn?

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude abides..."
     
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