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Type of powder?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by W.R.Buchanan, Apr 27, 2010.

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  1. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Can anyone tell me exactly what powder Winchester uses in it's current AA Red shells?

    I realize it is probably Winchester powder, What type and how much?

    Also I have been loading Green Dot in my AA reloads and they all are filthy dirty when they come out of the gun. Is this the powder or something else?

    All of my once fired AA hulls both new and old style are relatively clean after first firing, that's why I'm asking about the Winchester powder type as it is obivously cleaner burning than the Green Dot.

    On another note: My XT had a substantial amount of plastic in the ports after my last shoot, It was the first time I had seen it,(600 rnds into the new gun) and this stuff defied removal. I tried every solvent I have, no luck, I ended up chucking a nylon bore brush in a drill and ran that for a few seconds and then 30 seconds, and then a minute. My god this crap does not want to let go. I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this as one other guy with the same gun asked me how to get rid of it. Whats up with this problem? And how do I fix it?. Is this a common problem with the XT's? as I have not seen it in the Berettas?

    I'd believe bad or no deburring of the port holes if the inside of the bores wasn't an absolute mirror finish. It apprears they were honed after the ports were done. Are the ports drilled or EDM'd?

    As usual I appreciate any help provided by the virtual encyclopedia of knowledge at Trapshooters.com,

    Randy
     
  2. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    For the fouling, use mineral spirits and a nylon tooth brush. Brush some on, wait about ten minutes and brush it off and wipe down. (from the outside of the tube). Swab inside with a mineral spirit soaked patch on a jag then a dry patch and you are good to go. No power tools required.

    To get the Green Dot to burn clean you need to increase the pressure. You didn't say what load you are trying to make but Green Dot is at its best with 1 1/8 Oz loads at 1,200 Fps or more. Not so great with the lighter shot charges and/or lower velocities.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Winchester, and all other factories, use an OEM powder that is not available to us. The OEM powder is not any better than the powder we have available. It is simply powder that does not quite meed specifications required for retail powder much like Promo powder. Each lot of OEM powder will vary a little bit.

    Randy- I suggest that you take advantage of the accumulated discoloration caused by powder. It is a good way to distinguish how many times the hull has been reloaded and when it is ready to be tossed in the trash.

    wolfram is correct about Green Dot powder. It is excellent for handicap loads but a little faster powder (American Select, Clay Dot, Red Dot) is a little better for light loads.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    According to Hodgdon, you can "duplicate" the factory loads using Winchester Cannister powders. WST, WAALite, etc. They list "Factory Duplication" loads in their data, or at least used to. The Winchester cannister powders seem to look and perform like the original factory loads. I've not compared dissected AA hulls in some time, but years ago the powder sharges in a factory load seemed to jive pretty close with the data. Like Pat said, the manufacturers may use a "bulk" powder that is not available to reloaders.
     
  5. Squeal

    Squeal Member

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    18grns WST for 2 3/4 dram (1150fps) 1 1/8 oz shot
    20grms WST for 3 dram (1200 fps) 1 1/8 oz shot
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Squeal

    What primer? What Wad? We'll assume the Win AA hull. I have the data for myself, but if you post data, it should be complete and accurate. They actually list 18.5 grains of WST with the AA hull, WAA12 Wad, Win W209 primer for 1145 fps at 8600 PSI. They just don't appear to list the loads as "Factory Duplication" anymore.
     
  7. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    The only reason my XT barrels are ported is that is the way Browning makes them. I do not waste effort trying to clean out those @#$%^ little holes...just hope they fill up with crud so the barrels become "non-ported". Sorry to sound like a scruffy bum, but I'm sure there are those who will greatly disagree. At 70 years of age, I have few years left and don't want to spend time cleaning little holes which are not necessary. Best Regards, Ed
     
  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I can't stand ported barrels either, but these little pastry tip cleaners work good, and it only takes a couple of minutes. Wayne


    [​IMG]
     
  9. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Randy, throw away the nylon brush and use a brass brush.

    Factory AA's are extremely clean burning. You will never "duplicate" it at home.
     
  10. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    The exact load I'm using is now 18.2-3 grns Green Dot, Claybuster WAA12 wad, 1 1/8oz #8 shot and a Fed 209 primer.

    This load came from the Alliant Book and is supposed to generate 1150 fps at 9300 psi. The next load up from there with these same components is 19.0 grns GD for 1200 fps at 10,200 psi

    When I bought bushings from Hornady the 438 powder bush was supposed to drop 18.0 grns however it only dropped 17.5 I've been told they always drop short. The 1 1/8 shot bush dropped 1.08-1 oz of shot and the light combo resulted in dished and inconsistant crimps. They fired fine but looked bad and the external discoloration was there. I immediately thought low pressure not expanding the hull to seal the chamber fully.

    I bored the powder bush to .446 which now drops 18.2-3 grns. and bored the shot bush which was light also .009 larger. Result 1.15oz shot and perfect crimps. But the same exterior discoloration (soot). This stuff wipes right off, but is the sign of something not quite right. Note: none of the AA factory loads I've shot are discolored in the slightest, and even the cheaper field loads don't bypass soot. I guess really the soot is no big deal, but this is why I was thinking newer style cleaner burning powder. Maybe I'll embrace the soot like Pat says.

    I'll report back when I figure out how to get the plastic out of the ports, Jim flynn is supposed to have some kind of a spiral brush used to clean the rifling in front of the choke tubes on Ljutigs.

    Thanks for all your help.. I'm new to trap but I learn quick so all of this will get sorted out.

    Randy
     
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